This is a rush transcript of ‘Fox News Sunday’ on December 31, 2023. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MIKE EMANUEL, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: I'm Mike Emanuel, in for Shannon Bream.
A new year set to begin at the stroke of midnight, the report card in for a tumultuous 2023, 2024 promising to be a year of surprises and a history- making election.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
EMANUEL (voice-over): Fireworks usher in the New Year down under as America awaits the ball drop tonight in Times Square.
Wall Street celebrates a hot streak for stockholders, mortgage rates drop, inflation slows. But most Americans still feel the pinch.
We'll ask Economic Council of Advisers Chair Jared Bernstein about the disconnect in an exclusive interview.
Plus --
KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We're at a time of a year where we're seeing more at the border, and it's not unusual. This is an immigration system that has been broken for decades.
EMANUEL: Migrant encounters for the year crush records as Congress remains split on security talks.
We'll get reaction from two border state congressmen, Texas Democrat Henry Cuellar and Texas Republican Tony Gonzales.
Then --
SHENNA BELLOWS, MAINE SECRETARY OF STATE: I came to the conclusion that I could not unfortunately or fortunately wait for the United States Supreme Court.
EMANUEL: Maine becomes the second state to try and block former President Trump from the 2024 primary ballot.
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It opens up a Pandora's Box.
VIVEK RAMASWAMY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And I say this as somebody who's running in the same race as Donald Trump. This is not how we should want to win.
CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This should be decided by voters of the United States. It should not be decided by courts.
EMANUEL: Republican hopefuls slam the move as the race for the White House heats up on the trail.
We'll get reaction from our Sunday panel and get their take on some of the biggest legal battles ahead for both President Trump and President Biden's son Hunter.
All, right now, in a special New Year's Eve edition of "FOX News Sunday".
(END VIDEOTAPE)
EMANUEL (on camera): And hello from FOX News in Washington.
On this last day of 2023, we begin with news out of the Middle East. U.S. Navy helicopter sunk three Iranian-backed Houthi gun boats in the Red Sea today after coming under attack when responding to a distress call from a Danish-owned cargo ship. A fourth gun boat vanished to escape. Iranian- backed forces had struck the same cargo ship Saturday with a missile. The U.S. Navy destroyer shut down two more ballistic missiles fired from a Houthi controlled area of Yemen while responding to that attack.
There have been more than 20 attacks by Houthis on international shipping since November 19, all these amidst heightened tensions in the region over the Israel and Gaza war.
Let's turn to Lucas Tomlinson live from St. Croix where the president is spending his holiday with reaction -- Lucas.
LUCAS TOMLINSON, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Mike, it's the first time U.S. forces have come under direct attack in the Red Sea, forcing them to return fire in self defense. U.S. military's central command says helicopters from the aircraft carrier USS Dwight D. Eisenhower and destroyer gravely returned fire, sinking three of those Iranian-backed gun boats, killing all crew members aboard. One managed to escape. Both helicopters returned to their ship unharmed, Mike.
EMANUEL: Lucas, turning now to the economy and the New Year. There were some encouraging numbers, but they don't seem to be resonating with Main Street or with voters. A majority have negative opinion of president's handling of the economy. What can you tell us?
TOMLINSON: Mike, the economy is one of the reasons President Biden's approval rating has plummeted becoming -- having lowest approval rating of any president running for reelection since the end of World War II. A majority of Democrats do not want them to seek reelection and a vast majority of Americans think he is too old for the job.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOMLINSON (voice-over): President Biden ended the year feeling update about the economy.
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: All good. Take a look. Start reporting the right way.
TOMLINSON: A recent FOX News poll says a majority of his own party disagrees. Sixty-one percent of Democrats say the economy is in bad shape, 85 percent of independents agree, and only 14 percent say the president's economic policies have helped them, about half say they have hurt them.
In St. Croix, the president boasted, "One more great year in the books," and listed a number of what he called his major accomplishments, saying he tackled inflation and lowered costs and created good jobs. He did not mention the big year on Wall Street, the Dow finishing up nearly 14 percent higher, and the S&P 500 increased by 24 percent over the past year.
STEVEN MOORE, FORMER TRUMP ECONOMIC ADVISER: It's been a better year, no question about it. Inflation has come down, Anita, from 9 percent. Now, we're down to about 3.5 percent inflation. That's still too high for people.
TOMLINSON: While the rate of inflation has dropped from its 40-year high, many Americans are still feeling the pain of high prices. A recent report said Americans need to make extra $11,000 a year to keep up with inflation. To pay the bills, Americans have racked up over a trillion dollars in credit card debt.
REP. CORY MILLS (R-FL): Every average American knows when they stick their hand on their pocket under the Biden administration, or Bidenomics, you have far less on what you have during the Trump administration.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TOMLINSON: When President Biden returns to Washington, he faces a grueling reelection campaign in 2024 -- Mike.
EMANUEL: Lucas Tomlinson reporting from St. Croix, Lucas, many thanks.
Joining us now is Council of Economic Advisers chair, Jared Bernstein.
Jared, welcome.
JARED BERNSTEIN, CHAIR OF COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC ADVISERS: Thank you, Mike, and a happy and prosperous New Year to you and all of your viewers.
EMANUEL: Amen.
From the FOX poll, in the next year, 22 percent say get better and 44 percent say they expect the economy to get worse. How troubling is that heading into an election year?
BERNSTEIN: Well, I think on New Year's Day, a good place to start is let's look at what folks were saying last New Year's, at the beginning of this year. You had most financial outlets and many economists assuring us that a recession was inevitable and that the unemployment rate would have to rise many points in order to get inflation down.
Go back to year and a half and the price of gas was north of $5 a gallon. Today, as I sit and talk to you on New Year's Eve day, there is no recession. Unemployment has been below 4 percent for 22 months in a row. Price of gas this morning was $3.11 on average across the nation and below $3 a gallon in 28 states.
Now, this combination of lowering inflation and inflation is on a solid glide path back to its pre-re -- pre-pandemic rate, this combination of tight labor market and easing prices has led to real wage gains. On a yearly basis, wages for midlevel workers have been beating prices for nine months in a row. That's a trend, Mike, not a blip.
Now, you reasonably ask, why isn't that reaching more Americans? Well, if we look at our two most closely watched measures of consumer sentiment, consumer confidence, they both rose big time in December. One was up 10 percent, the other a whopping 14 percent.
That's one month. That's not yet a trend, but it's certainly suggestive that the measures that this president is taking to help provide support and relief to families like the one he grew up in are working and people are starting to feel it.
EMANUEL: More from the FOX poll, only 14 percent say they've been helped by President Biden's economic policies, 46 percent say they've been hurt. That helped number has dipped from December '21 and December '22.
Why do you think Main Street may be so upset?
BERNSTEIN: Well, people have been through a lot over the past few years -- a 100-year pandemic, a global supply chain snarl up that led to global inflation. We've seen geopolitical conflicts and so on. And so, I think some of that is definitely in the mix.
But I think you have to look, yes, at what people say. And I pay a lot of attention to that. They're the best arbiters of their views of the economy. But I think we also have to look at what people do.
Now, if you look at just the last couple months from November 1st to Christmas Eve, we saw spending at restaurants go up 8 percent. That's less than two months. We saw spending on online sales go up 6 percent. Overall retail spending up 3 percent in just a couple of months.
This has been a very strong Christmas season. Look at entrepreneurship, we've seen huge gains in folks starting businesses, especially, by the way, people of color. I don't think you start businesses at this rate unless you have some optimism, some confidence about where we're going.
So, if you actually look at trend in economy, the strength of consumer spending, real wage gains for nine months in a row year over year for mid- level workers, I think you see some real momentum getting us in a good -- a good start for the New Year.
EMANUEL: You made reference to spending. Lucas's setup piece, there was talk about the ballooning credit card debt in this country. Is that a potential trouble spot down the road?
BERNSTEIN: It's obviously something we want to look at, but one of the things we've seen that's been very important is an increase in the net worth or the wealth of not just folks at top of the scale, but middle and lower income people, as well. In fact, for people in communities of color, we've seen record numbers of increase in wealth. And that's one of the reasons why household balance sheets have actually been in very good shape this time of year.
Now, some of what you're calling ballooning is really a return to kind of normal levels of credit card delinquencies or debt levels. But if you actually look how much it costs people to service their debts, even as interest rates have gone up, they're in quite good shape. And, in fact, if you look at after tax or disposable income, that's up 3.7 percent over the past year and that's one of the tailwinds that's helping to support consumer spending.
Now, remember, we're an economy that's 70 percent consumer spending. So, with the strong tailwind of this job market behind consumers, with easing inflation coming back to where it was pre-pandemic, with actual lower prices -- in eggs, TVs, toys, airfare, used cars, that's starting to really make a difference to families. And as I said, some of that is showing up in our consumer confidence measures, especially we saw that this month.
EMANUEL: Let's be forward-looking as we're about to start a new year, what is the president's plan as relates to the economy if elected to a second term?
BERNSTEIN: I've got two words for you, Mike, lowering costs. Lowering the cost of insulin, make sure that the measures that this president legislated to keep down the price of prescription drugs, of healthcare coverage, to continue fighting against junk fees, whether they're at concert events, airfares, banks, hotels, to continue to build on this progress we've made, and not just lower inflation but actual lower cost in key areas of consumer spending.
And I think it's very important here to look at contrast between who this president is fighting for and who those on the other side of the aisle appear to be fighting for. It looks to us like their economic agenda going into '24 is to cut taxes for millionaires and billionaires, to repeal this president's legislative measures to lower the cost of insulin, to lower the cost of prescription drugs, to lower the cost of clean energy and health coverage, and to defund the IRS so millionaires and billionaires can continue to do -- to evade hundreds of billions of dollars of taxes.
EMANUEL: OK.
BERNSTEIN: If you look who's fighting for whom, I think it's pretty clear.
EMANUEL: What about the debt? $33.9 trillion and growing is not sustainable.
BERNSTEIN: Yeah, totally a fair point and big issue for the coming year when we will have our budget out in a couple of years -- I'm sorry, in a couple of months. And that budget will show continued deficit reduction under this president.
Now, look, he has a proposal -- I'm talking about our last budget now -- he has a proposal to reduce the deficit by $2.5 trillion over 10 years. Now, we can't do that ourselves. We need Congress to work with us.
How do we do that? By returning some fairness to the tax code. Nobody under $400,000 would pay a dime more in taxes. But those at the very top, many of whom I just suggested have been evading hundreds of billions of dollars of taxes, we know Republicans are trying to actually cut back the IRS funding that would help to reduce that tax evasion and close that tax gap.
Our idea is to lower the costs. It's not just -- it's not just high end tax increases, it's to lower the cost of healthcare spending, of prescription drugs, of the cost of insulin, of healthcare coverage -- again, measures that look to us like opposition wants to com -- wants to repeal.
So that's going the wrong way. That both raises the budget deficit -- we saw that this year in some of their proposals -- that raises the budget deficit. It raises cost for middle class families. It raises costs for seniors. That's not what you'll see in our budget.
EMANUEL: All right. Jared Bernstein, thanks very much. Happy New Year.
BERNSTEIN: Thank you, Mike.
EMANUEL: And it's time now for our Sunday group. "The Hill" national political reporter Julia Manchester, Mollie Hemingway, editor in chief of the "Federalist" and a FOX News contributor, FOX News senior political analyst Juan Williams and "Reuters" White House correspondents, Jeff Mason.
Welcome to you all.
So, Jeff, as our White House correspondent on duty, how alarmed is president and his team with those economic numbers?
JEFF MASON, REUTERS WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think they want to emphasize what they see as successes and you heard Jared do that in the interview you just conducted. They want to emphasize that prices have come down. They want to talk about low unemployment. But the truth is and the important piece politically is what your poll showed, Americans aren't feeling it.
And so, despite what they may be saying publicly, I think, there is concern in the West Wing and in the campaign in Delaware about how do we make Americans realize that the Biden economy is actually pretty strong. Americans just don't see it that way.
EMANUEL: Julia, how vulnerable do those numbers make the president in this upcoming election?
JULIA MANCHESTER, THE HILL NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: I think they make them very vulnerable. Obviously, the economy is one of the top priorities. Voters tend to vote on it. If this is Trump versus Biden match up and polling won't seem to suggest that, Trump can easily look back on his pre- pandemic economic numbers and point to low inflation and low unemployment throughout that.
So, that makes Biden vulnerable. Now, I think you're going to see the Biden campaign point to maybe Trump's economy during the pandemic, I think end of the day, it's still a bad issue for President Biden.
EMANUEL: Juan, we remember during the Clinton era, it's the economy, stupid. If voters don't feel like the economy is strong, I know Wall Street is hitting up, mortgage rates are coming down, but if people don't feel it, is the president in trouble?
JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yeah. I mean, people have to feel that there's some improvement. And in the poll numbers hat we've just gone over this morning, you know, poll numbers from FOX, good news for Biden, if you will, is it's headed in the right direction. In other words, people feel better about 2023 than they did about 2022 and way better than they did about 2020. The numbers are still low, but again, if you look at some of the real world, you know, experiences that we have everyday at the gas pump or buying eggs and bread, you start to see these prices going down and Americans have reason to think, oh, things are getting better.
And other part of the conversation is, Julia touched on it, you know, pre- pandemic, people understand, we went through something horrible and had damage done. So, Biden has something to work with here, all numbers that Jared Bernstein went through this morning, I think what you hear on the campaign trail. And he's right, consumer confidence, consumer sentiment is up, holiday spending is up and he's going to talk not just about the economy, he's also going to talk about chaos on Capitol Hill in the last year and he's going to talk about a lot of issues regarding Donald Trump.
EMANUEL: Mollie, how do you assess the president's chances based on how people feel about their personal finances?
MOLLIE HEMINGWAY, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Yeah, it's interesting. The Biden administration is extremely rosy when they talk about the economy. They seem to think everything is going incredibly well, it sounds like for Jared Bernstein, things are going well for him personally.
The problem for the Biden administration, is that the American people do not share that rosy outlook. You know, by two to one margin, they think the economy is going to get worse. And hearing the Biden administration talk about how great the economy is and that prices are going down, I think it makes a lot of people feel that the Biden administration just has no relationship to reality or no understanding what it's like to go to the grocery store, put the same items in your cart and have the price skyrocket.
This is a problem for American voters and they want to feel like someone actually understands how difficult it is or how difficult it is to sell or buy a house, what the mortgage rates are like. I mean, these are real issues and they're not getting a feeling from the Biden administration, I don't think, that they understand how difficult the economy is for the average American.
EMANUEL: All right. We'll off to a fast start. Thanks, panel. Plenty more with you later in the show.
Live pictures of the border at Eagle Pass, Texas, where hundreds of thousands of migrants have been pouring into the United States during the last three years of the Biden administration and there's no clear end in sight. At this very moment, thousands of Central American migrants are making their way through southern Mexico to reach the U.S.
Up next, we will speak to two Texas border congressmen, one a Democrat, the other a Republican, about the crisis, right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
EMANUEL: A live look at Capitol Dome here in Washington. Congress is still off on holiday break this week. The Senate and the House return second week in January with a jam-packed to-do list and a January 19th deadline to fund the government or face shutdown.
FOX News senior congressional correspondent Chad Pergram lays it all out for us.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHAD PERGRAM, FOX NEWS SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The legislative lift is prodigious, a rush to secure a border deal in order to unlock aid for Ukraine and Israel, all in a shadow of not one, but two potential government shutdowns.
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): The winter recess will be a busy and important few weeks for the U.S. Senate.
PERGRAM: Bipartisan border talks resumed after Christmas.
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): I'm planning on staying at the negotiating table for however long it takes to get this done.
PERGRAM: But it's doubtful the sides can forge an agreement right away.
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): This is not easy.
PERGRAM: However, a collision with the January 19th funding deadline could pulverize border negotiations.
SEN. PATTY MURRAY (D-WA): The shutdown clock is ticking now.
PERGRAM: House Speaker Johnson opposes a band-aid spending plan called a CR, but that could be the only option to avoid a shutdown.
REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): It will save tens of billions of dollars, but won't achieve the policy goals that many of us have been fighting for.
PERGRAM: McConnell says a temporary bill is, quote, devastating for the military, that's because interim bills squeeze the Pentagon the most.
MCCONNELL: A CR is simply unacceptable for a year.
PERGRAM: And then there is impeachment. Republicans believe the holiday recess could persuade skeptical GOP members to impeach the president after talking with people back home.
REP. JAMES COMER (R-KY): Constituents want to know what's going on here. They want to know, is our president for sale?
PERGRAM: The House is also considering holding Hunter Biden in contempt of Congress. He ducked a subpoena for a deposition in December. But the border could overshadow everything, especially as local officials feel the heat to deal with waves of illegal migrants -- Mike.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
EMANUEL: Chad Pergram, thanks very much.
Some staggering figures from our southern border. Since the beginning of December, there have been more than 286,000 migrant encounters there. Since the new fiscal year began on October 1st, there have been more than 770,000 encounters with more than 83,500 known gotaways, migrants seen or detected but not apprehended.
Joining me now, two Texas congressmen whose districts touch the Mexican border, Republican Tony Gonzales and Democrat Henry Cuellar.
Gentlemen, welcome.
REP. HENRY CUELLAR (D-TX): Thank you.
REP. TONY GONZALES (R-TX): Thank you, Mike.
EMANUEL: So, some eye-popping numbers in terms of illegal immigrants coming to the United States.
Congressman Cuellar, if President Biden is watching right now, what would you tell him he needs to do?
CUELLAR: He needs to look at the pull factor, and the pull factor right now is that as long as people are coming to the border and they feel that they're hitting (ph) a speed bump and they're being released and waiting for five or six years for adjudication, then they're going to keep coming.
It's the pull factor. If we don't address that by addressing detention, giving them the quick hearing, and then deporting -- most of them are going to be deported because asylum cases, if you look at the last 25 years, 87 percent are going to be rejected. So why are we allowing 100 percent when we ought to be looking at a smaller point?
So, it's the pull factor. You've got to have detention and deportation.
EMANUEL: Congressman Gonzales, you've invited Speaker Mike Johnson and some leading Republicans to the border this week. To be fair though, wouldn't it be more effective if you had Democrats coming as well?
GONZALES: Well, step one in solving the border crisis is getting all Republicans to get onboard. I have hosted Democrats as well, and I love to host anyone who's willing to come to the border.
Life along the border is turned upside down and that's exactly what the speaker and my colleagues are going to see next week.
You know, I believe in legal immigration, I believe most of America believes in legal immigration. But what we're seeing is not. This is chaos.
And so, enough is enough. It's time to deport those that illegally come into the United States. And President Biden can either do that or he can watch and lose and watch the next president enforce those policies that are on the books.
Hosting Speaker Johnson next week is very critical to getting House Republicans on board. I'm expecting at least 60 of my Republican colleagues to join us on that visit. We're going to be in Eagle Pass. We're going to be hearing from directly from people on the ground.
These stories are going to resonate and it's going to -- it's going to lead House Republicans into 2024 as we try to tackle these issues.
EMANUEL: The Justice Department is going after your governor, Greg Abbott, planning to sue over the Texas anti-immigration law, threatening, quote, to pursue all appropriate legal remedies to ensure that Texas does not interfere with functions of the federal government.
Do you support the DOJ on that, Congressman Cuellar?
CUELLAR: Well, first of all, let's keep in mind that there is a federal law that says that if you come into the United States, it's a misdemeanor. Then if you keep doing it, it becomes a felony. So, there's already something there.
My only concern is and I understand the state of Texas, there is a frustration and I join them in that frustration. My only thing is, the only ones sort of trained to do immigration law are Border Patrol. It's not the military. It's not the Texas DPS or the local officials. That's my concern is the training part of it. But I join them in the frustration.
But there is a federal law that says if you come here illegally, then it's either a misdemeanor or a felony, and I think it's about time that the federal government starts enforcing the books, including Title VIII.
EMANUEL: Congressman Tony Gonzales, your thoughts on the DOJ going after the governor?
GONZALES: Yeah. No, they sue us, we sue them, round and round we go. Meanwhile, Henry and I both together have over 50 percent of the southern border and we are the ones seeing it every single day. And we want solutions.
Enough with the finger-pointing. Enough with the lawyers getting rich with these lawsuits. We want real, tangible border security solutions that keep Americans safe.
And not only that, like we're going to demand that. And I would argue, there will be no border package that doesn't include Henry Cuellar and Tony Gonzales' consent or input on making sure that there are real, tangible solutions because we live it every single day.
EMANUEL: The secretary of state and the homeland security secretary traveled to Mexico this week. There was a joint statement basically talking about a variety of issues, and House Speaker Johnson is furious about what came out of that saying, quote, Secretaries Mayorkas and Blinken discussed with the president of Mexico amnesty for illegal immigrants.
Do you worry about amnesty talk attracting people and not deterring them, Congressman Cuellar?
CUELLAR: No, look, the last time we had amnesty was in 1986. You had a Democratic Congress and you had a Republican President Ronald Reagan. That was last time. I don't support that.
But I think what Tony and I were trying to do is trying to figure out how do we stop these large numbers of people coming in. Tony and I were actually down there with Senator Cornyn, Chris Murphy and other members, where we spent about five hours with the president of Mexico. We just got to make sure we understand each other.
We don't want Mexico to interfere with our foreign policy or with our laws, but we want them to do their job. The more we stop people on their 20-yard line, which is Mexico and Guatemala, then the better it is for us here. Then we got to enforce Title VIII, deportation and, of course, detention also.
EMANUEL: Congressman Gonzales, was the visit to Mexico by the cabinet secretaries just a photo-op?
GONZALES: I think it's more than a photo-op. I think it's the secretary of state doing his job and I thank him for doing his job and visiting some of these countries. For too long, the administration has relied on DHS Secretary Blinken.
But I'm going to be very clear here, there will be no amnesty in any national security package, I will make sure of that. I am looking for real, tangible solutions.
That is a dog whistle to the left that essentially tries to get them onboard. I don't -- I'm not worried about the politics in it.
I'm seeing Americans do not feel safe in their own homes, own homes. I feel -- I'm seeing fentanyl killing Americans. I'm seeing cities all over the country. Right now, we're talking about New York City, and Chicago, but next year, we're going to be talking about Denver and L.A. and Philadelphia. There is no end to this border crisis until there are real tangible solutions and that starts with enforcing those that come over illegally in our country, you deport them back to their country of origin.
EMANUEL: OK. When you, gentlemen, return to Capitol Hill, funding will be really a critical issue facing a January 19th deadline. After a couple short-term punts, will you guys get a deal through September the 30th? Congressman Cuellar?
CUELLAR: Well, you know, both Tony and I are appropriators and we certainly want to make sure that we fund the appropriations bill, especially homeland appropriations bills.
You know, we do have January 19th and then we have February 2nd, and then in between there, we got to see if we're going to work out a deal on the border and, of course, Ukraine and other areas, Israel. So, those are the things we need to look at. But as appropriators, we want to make sure we don't have a shutdown. We want to make sure that we fund the government appropriately.
EMANUEL: Congressman Gonzales, do you worry about another short-term funding extension?
GONZALES: I do. If you thought the politics in 2023 were fun, just wait until 2024. It is going to be lightning. It's going to be nonstop.
Once again, Henry and I sit on the Appropriations Committee. I have been pushing to pass these conservative appropriation packages that have - that have gone through the House, work with the Senate, come up with a deal. I voted against the last continuous resolution. I voted against the previous continuing resolution before that. And I will vote against the next continuing resolution. Unless there are meaningful border solutions in there, you can count me as a no on any continuing resolution.
EMANUEL: All right, Congressman Gonzales, Congressman Cuellar, thanks very much.
GONZALES Thank you much.
CUELLAR: Thank you so much. Happy New Year.
EMANUEL: Happy New Year.
Up next, fallout after decisions in Colorado and Maine to keep President Trump off the ballot next November, as even some Democrats join Republicans in calling the moves unfair and undemocratic. We'll bring back our Sunday panel with their thoughts on this hot button topic, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
EMANUEL: There is, of course, criticism after Maine followed Colorado in pushing to remove President Trump from the 2024 presidential ballot on constitutional grounds. This as several other states have lawsuits calling for their own bans. Alexandria Hoff has more.
Alex.
ALEXANDRIA HOFF, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Mike.
Yes, the Colorado and Maine rulings that remove Trump from the ballots have been effectively put on pause pending appeals. And the Trump legal team plans to file their appeals against the two states on Tuesday.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SHENNA BELLOWS, MAINE SECRETARY OF STATE: My first and foremost obligation is my oath to uphold the Constitution and the rule of law.
HOFF (voice over): In the already ground-breaking effort by some states to challenge former President Trump's ballot eligibility, Maine's decision stands out. Secretary of State Shenna Bellows unilaterally ruled to disqualify Trump. In Colorado, the decision came from the state's supreme court.
According to the Trump campaign, quote, "we are witnessing, in real-time, the attempted theft of an election and the disenfranchisement of the American voter. There are currently 13 states with lawsuits seeking to bar Trump from the GOP primary ballot. They all lean on a Civil War era provision in the U.S. Constitution that bans a person engaged in insurrection from holding public office. An appeal by Colorado's Republican Party leaves interpreting the 155-year-old clause up to the U.S. Supreme Court. For now, Trump's name will appear on Colorado primary ballot unless the high court sides with Colorado's earlier decision to kick him off.
JONATHAN TURLEY, GW UNIVERSITY LAW PROFESSOR: I think that the court will see this for what it is, which is a distinctly anti-democratic effort to win this election in the courts rather than polling places.
HOFF (voice over): California's Secretary of State Shirley Webber declined efforts to have Trump's name removed from ballots this week, telling the "L.A. Times," quote, "I have to basically continue to abide by the rule of law, and for me not to do that, then I am no better than Trump."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOFF (on camera): Now, this is interesting, if you total up the states where Trump has either been disqualified from the ballot or where efforts to do so are pending, it comes out to 171 electoral votes. That is out of 538.
Mike.
EMANUEL: Alex, thanks very much.
HOFF: OK.
EMANUEL: Let's bring back our panel, Julia, Mollie, Juan and Jeff.
And so, Mollie, this action in places like Colorado and Maine, is there a risk of this backfiring on Democrats and only helping former President Trump?
HEMINGWAY: Well, I think clearly it already is backfiring. There's a general Democrat strategy to bring criminal or civil charges against the president, try to steal his family business, try to remove his name from the ballot. And this is viewed by a lot of Americans as just completely unfair and antidemocratic.
In the United States, when we complain about other countries not practicing free and fair election, usually that means that they have removed the opposition party from the ballot or they've tried to imprison opposition party members. But the idea that Americans won't be able to vote for the candidate of their choice, that does not reflect well on the Democrat Party.
EMANUEL: I want to play a comment from a presidential candidate, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It opens up pandora's box, can you have a Republican secretary of state disqualify Biden from the ballot because he's let in 8 million people illegally, a massive invasion.
I think that we win when we hold Biden accountable and talk about the issues that matter to the American people. So, I think the Democrats, they want the election to be about all these other issues. They do not want to face accountability for their failed policies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
EMANUEL: Juan, where are you on this ballot issue?
WILLIAMS: Well, I think, you know, the problem here is that in the case of Maine, it was right in the law. I mean she has the power, as the secretary of state, and she looked at the law and said that without a doubt an insurrection took place in this country on January 6, 2021, there was violence at the Capitol and she saw Donald Trump as having a key role in the insurrection and, therefore, said that he can't run on the Maine ballot. There was a similar finding in Colorado.
So, the problem for Republicans is, they say, oh, this is a matter of politics. This is like, you know, some third world country. They're pushing your political opponents off the ballot. But in reality, I can't think of another country where a political leader would try to overthrow the government and then come back and say, I'm running for president. I mean I think most of them would say, put that guy in jail.
HEMINGWAY: So, Juan - Juan, in this country, we practice something called due process.
WILLIAMS: Right.
HEMINGWAY: If you believe someone has committed a crime, you charge them with a crime. You have a trial related to that crime. You convict them.
What's happening in this situation is that you have unelected justices on the Colorado supreme court, all appointed by Democrats, and a Democrat secretary of state in Maine, unilaterally deciding to claim that a protest is somehow related to the former president and barring that person.
WILLIAMS: The Constitution, Mollie, the -
HEMINGWAY: That is not how our country operates in - in carrying about due process, which is a constitutional protection.
WILLIAMS: I think - I think we - I think we are a - we are a nation of laws that apply to all of us.
HEMINGWAY: Exactly, including the Constitution.
WILLIAMS: To all of us. And in this case, the Constitution says that someone involved in an insurrection, this is civil rights, after the Civil War, can't then run for office. So, that's the law. That is the law.
The problem for Trump and the Republicans is, they can't get away from the stink of January 6th and Donald Trump's lies about January 6th. In fact, Trump is not even saying that he's not guilty, he's saying, you can't ask me about it because I was president. That's what he's saying.
EMANUEL: All right, we've got more to get into. You guys are doing a great job.
President Trump has many other court cases to deal with in the new year, while President Biden's son Hunter is also facing some legal trouble in 2024.
David Spunt has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID SPUNT, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice over): 2024, a year marked by an intense presidential campaign and one filled with trips to the courtroom if your name is Hunter Biden or Donald Trump. The former president facing four state and federal prosecution with possible trials smack dab in the middle of the election year. Trump is taking his fights to a federal appeal court on January 9th, hoping the judges will throw out charges relating to his alleged attempts to overturn the 2020 election. His attorneys argue, "President Trump has absolute immunity from prosecution for his official acts as president. The indictment alleged only official acts, so it must be dismissed."
The filing comes a day after the U.S. Supreme Court declined to fast track the case, a temporary blow for special counsel Jack Smith, who wants to take Trump to trial on March 4th, one day before Super Tuesday. That date is expected to slide.
BILL BARR, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL: His strategy is to run out the clock.
SPUNT: Trump's former attorney general, William Barr, tells Fox News that absolute immunity may not extend to the former president.
BARR: What was the function he was performing when he was doing these things after the election? And the government's position is going to be that he was a candidate. He was acting as a candidate, not really as president.
SPUNT: Legal challenges also plague the Biden family as the president's son prepares for next month's arraignment on federal tax charges, including three felonies. Hunter Biden also faces felony gun charges in Delaware.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SPUNT (on camera): And President Biden faces a separate special counsel probe into his handling of classified documents while vice president, as well as a possible congressional impeachment.
Mike.
EMANUEL: David, thanks very much.
So, Jeff, you covered former President Trump. What about the point of running out the clock to basically win re-election and make these cases go away?
MASON: Well, I think, you know, that's certainly something that his critics and perhaps even his supporters think he's doing. It's - it's part of the strategy. And I was just counting up in my head the number of elections that I've covered. I think this is number five. 2024 is just going to be so unprecedented because of the dual action of the campaign, the primaries, the general election, once we get there, and these legal battles. It's -- it will underpin the entire - the entire race.
And just going back a little bit to the debate on the other side of the table, one thing I think we can, I think, all agree on, and this is related to both the legal cases and the politics, is January 6th is big part of the 2024 election. Regardless of what side you're on about what happened that day, this election is not just going to be about the economy, it's not just going to be about Israel and foreign policy, it's going to be about what happened at the end of former President Trump's term in office.
EMANUEL: Julia, have you seen any evidence of these legal cases having any drag on the former president's campaign?
MANCHESTER: No. In fact, it seems to have made him stronger in the Republican primary. He's leading in Iowa and New Hampshire, at the national level. And I think it reinforces his own message that he is a victim of a legal and political establishment in this country.
Now, in terms of how it impacts the general election if he's the nominee, that has yet to be seen. I'm curious to see if voters look at that and say, oh, this is more noise from inside of Washington or if there's something serious here. But it is an interesting juxtaposition when you have Trump going through the - his own legal issues, and then the sitting president's son going through other legal issues. I'm curious to see whether voters, at the end of the day, think it's noise or something to look into.
EMANUEL: What about the Hunter Biden impact on the Biden campaign going forward and House Republicans considering, you know, going after the president in terms of impeachment, Juan?
WILLIAMS: Well, I mean, you know, Hunter Biden is the president's son. He's not the president. And, clearly, he's a very troubled person, you know, even to the point of addiction and trouble that you can see online if you have a lurid interest.
But, you know, it seems to me, so far, I'm open to see what's going on. If he's a tax cheat, go get him, I say. And, you know, I say that from either side of the political aisle.
But when you look at what they are say - suggesting is the basis for impeaching the president of the United States, I think the Republicans so far, you know, are looking for smoke because they believe there's a fire. But so far they don't even have smoke. They don't have anything. And I think, in large part, it looks like they are acting as if they are political extensions of the Trump campaign and trying to create an equivalence between what is going on with all the legal troubles that afflict President Trump, Rudy Giuliani being found guilty, $140 million, I believe, Sydney Powell, Jenna Ellis, all of that on the Trump side, and saying, oh that's - that's similar to what's going on with the Democrats. But so far there is no evidence.
HEMINGWAY: So, I think the problem for President Biden, he actually has two major problems dealing with this impeachment. One is the Biden family business. The Biden family business traded on the name of Joe Biden, the president, for -- and they got a lot of money from foreign oligarchs and foreign entities. You have people testifying that this business would not have existed without Joe Biden. You also have people saying that he was intimately involved, and you also now have receipts showing that some money from this business did make it to the Biden family.
More troubling, I think, is this other issue, which is that every step of the way, when officials started looking into Biden family business, they were obstructed and shut down. And even quite recently you had President Biden admitted that he knew that Hunter Biden planned to obstruct Congress in their investigation of this Biden family business where foreign oligarchs give a lot of money to the Biden family in exchange for access to Joe Biden. And he says that he knew that he -- the White House said that they - that Joe Biden knew Hunter Biden planned to obstruct Congress and that didn't do anything to - to encourage him to follow the law and testify in front of Congress.
So, when you look at recent impeachments, like President Trump's, President Bill Clinton's, this one is actually much more serious than either of those impeachments.
WILLIAMS: Wait a second, there's evidence of President Trump trying to extort the Ukrainian president to get evidence against a political opponent. There's no evidence here.
HEMINGWAY: Well, it - I think - well, and even that looks different now, when you look back and you think, President Trump wanted to look into some of the corruption that has now been revealed in Ukraine with the Biden family taking money.
EMANUEL: OK.
WILLIAMS: Including - there is not. I'm really shocked at this, but it's just nothing.
EMANUEL: All right, panel, stay with us.
Up next, we're just a little over two weeks until the Iowa caucus. The first time this cycle Americans will have their voices heard on who they want to be their party's choices for president. Candidates are scrambling to make their final impression before Iowans go to caucus. More on that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Nikki Haley is running on her donor's issues. I'm running on the people's issues and turning this country around. That's my sole focus.
NIKKY HALEY (R), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Ron has been desperate from the beginning. You should see the commercials he's doing in Iowa. Every one of them's a lie.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
EMANUEL: Oh, it's getting feisty. Ron DeSantis and Nikki Haley trading barbs this weekend as they go into the final two weeks of campaigning before the Iowa caucuses.
And we're back now with the panel.
So, Julia, new year is great time for predictions. Do you think it's Trump v Biden, the rematch, or are you expecting any surprises?
MANCHESTER: Look, there's always the potential for surprises, but if we look at the polls and some of the other indicators, it seems like we are heading towards a Trump versus Biden rematch.
That being said, though, I really have my eye on New Hampshire. I know we're talking about Iowa because it's first, but New Hampshire is so interesting to me because you have Trump and then Haley in second place. "The Hill's" decision desk average shows Haley about 17 points behind Trump. Now, that's still a lot, but you have Christie at 10 percent. So if Christie were to drop out, he's given no indication he will, that would bump Haley much closer to Trump.
Now, before the - sort of the drama and the fallout from her comments about slavery and the Civil War, I think we were talking a lot - a lot about that possibility. But Christie sort of dug into that. So, he's given no indication he's dropping out. So, I think we're going towards a race for second place. But New Hampshire, I think, is one to watch.
EMANUEL: Jeff, how do you see it?
MASON: It's been a race for second place the entire year. And President Trump -- former President Trump has been ahead in the polls in all of these places. He hasn't shown up at the debates for a reason. He hasn't needed to.
There might be surprises. I mean I think it's important to remind all of us that polls have been wrong. We certainly saw them wrong in 2016 and there could be some voters who aren't saying what they're going to do or haven't decided. But the polling largely -- the difference between these candidates is so huge. It's - it's pretty hard to imagine that it's not a Trump v Biden 2024 race.
EMANUEL: Mollie, what about some of the pressure on some of these Republican candidate to get out, to make it a two-person race basically on the Republican side?
HEMINGWAY: Well, to - to the point that was just made, it would help Nikki Haley if Chris Christie got out. But it doesn't really seem like it would change everything altogether that much anyway. So, even if Ron DeSantis, you know, pulled out a miracle and got pretty close in Iowa, and if Nikki Haley wins in New Hampshire, it still doesn't really change the contour of the race that much. The American voter, the Republican Party voter, very much seems to have already committed to President Trump. He's essentially getting to run as an incumbent. And if anything it would seem that there's report support for Donald Trump being the nominee of the Republican Party and there is for Joe Biden to be the nominee of the Democrat Party.
EMANUEL: Juan, are Democrats right to be worried about potential third party candidates?
WILLIAMS: They certainly are because the idea is that they would drain support from President Biden far more so than Donald Trump, although if you look at, you know, Joe Kennedy, you know, that might be a little -
EMANUEL: RFK Jr.
WILLIAMS: RFK Jr., excuse me, that might be a little different.
But you look at the history of this, Mike, and you look at people, you know, going back to John Anderson, you think about Ross Perot. Ross Perot got 19 percent, Josh Anderson about 7 percent. And then in more recent years you think about Gary Johnson, Jill Stein. They're all down in single digits. So these people are spoilers, they're not winners.
EMANUEL: Right.
WILLIAMS: And the idea is that they would spoil it and more likely spoil for Joe Biden.
EMANUEL: All right, panel, great job. Happy New Year.
MANCHESTER: You too.
MASON: Happy New Year.
EMANUEL: We will see you next Sunday.
Up next, some of the richest and most powerful people in the world could be on a list no one wants to be on. That's expected to be made public this week. Details right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
EMANUEL: We are likely to learn in the coming days just who participated in the sexual escapades and abuses of the late financier Jeffrey Epstein. Some of the names may be familiar to you.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
EMANUEL (voice over): This week some high-profile friends and associates of the late Jeffrey Epstein are expected to be outed. Federal Judge Loretta Preska allowed time for any of the more than 150 people mentioned in court documents to appeal her ruling. The list of Jane Does and John Joes also includes former Epstein employees and sexual abuse victims. The victims are expected to remain anonymous.
The unsealed court documents are related to a defamation case brought by Virginia Giuffre Roberts in New York against Ghislaine Maxwell. Roberts claims Maxwell defamed her by alleging that Roberts was lying about being sex trafficked by Epstein.
Roberts accused Prince Andrew of raping her when she was a teenage victim of his friend Epstein. The prince paid a settlement to Roberts last year.
Tennessee Republican Senator Marsha Blackburn has been pushing for release.
SEN. MARSHA BLACKBURN (R-TN): We need to know who was on that plane, who was participating in this? They redacted those records in the Ghislaine Maxwell trial. But getting to the bottom of this is important.
EMANUEL (voice over): Congressman Tim Burchett, also a Tennessee Republican, has suggested the flight logs haven't been made public because too many of his colleagues could be compromised. Epstein killed himself in 2019 while behind bars awaiting trial on sex abuse charges. Presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy Jr. says the record should be released to the public and talked about his own two flights on Epstein's plane.
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., INDEPENDENT PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I was on it in 1993, and I was on it in - and I went to Florida with my wife and two children to visit my mom over Easter.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
EMANUEL (on camera): It is expected those high-profile names could be released any day now. A story we will track this week.
That's it for today. Thank you for joining us. I'm Mike Emanuel, in for Shannon Bream. Happy New Year. Have a great week. And we will see you next FOX NEWS SUNDAY.
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END
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