This is a rush transcript of "Fox News Sunday" on February 26, 2022. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
SHANNON BREAM, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: I'm Shannon Bream.
The first Republican debate is now officially teed up for Milwaukee in August. Three notable candidates are now in the race. Who else is about to take the leap?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT: I'm thrilled to be back in this beautiful state.
VIVEK RAMASWAMY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you very much.
NIKKI HALEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's a great day in South Carolina.
SEN. TIM SCOTT (R-SC): Hello, Iowa!
BREAM (voice-over): Senator Tim Scott tests the waters after chatter he maybe the next Republican to jump in and challenge Donald Trump for the White House. The South Carolina Republican joins us to discuss his political aspirations and his Faith in America Tour. Senator Tim Scott only on "FOX News Sunday".
And concerns mount as China appears to grow closer to Russia.
JOHN KIRBY, WHITE HOUSE NSC SPOKESMAN: Clearly, that would have very, very bad ramifications.
BREAM: Now, China is calling for an end to the conflict in Ukraine amid reports Beijing is aiding Putin's war effort. We'll sit down with Senator Ben Cardin, a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on heightened tensions and Putin's vow to suspend participation in a key nuclear arms agreement.
Then, the forewoman of the special grand jury investigating Trump's actions in Georgia after 2020 goes on a media blitz hinting about indictments.
EMILY KOHRS, TRUMP GRAND JUROR: There are certainly names that you will recognize.
BREAM: We'll ask our Sunday panel whether her actions could undermine the credibility of the prosecution's case.
Plus, a look inside the sketchbook of the courtroom expert that takes you inside the nation's biggest cases.
All right now on "FOX News Sunday."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BREAM (on camera): Hello, from FOX News in Washington.
We're still about a year out from seeing voters head to the polls in 2024 primaries, but the Republican field is taking shape with several candidates already declared. And there is a lengthy roster of potential candidates promising decisions in the coming months. Many of those high-profile names are making high-profile trips to those early primary and caucus states.
In a moment, we will speak live with Republican Senator Tim Scott of South Carolina who was the subject of some recent speculation fresh out of Iowa.
But, first, a look at his recent travels to that all-important state.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCOTT: As I hear more from the constituency here in Iowa and around the country, it will give me more information on what to do next.
BREAM (voice-over): Tim Scott's travels in Iowa have the feel of a campaign minus the official announcement.
SCOTT: For America to be at our best, we have to work together.
BREAM: His Faith in America Tour is the latest in a fast rise from a single-parent home to congressman to senator.
THEN-GOVERNOR NIKKI HALEY (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: I would like to introduce to you our Senate-elect Tim Scott.
BREAM: As the Senate's only Black Republican, Scott has worked for bipartisan consensus on tough issues.
SCOTT: I think the issue of policing in America seriously. I want our body to see it not as an issue of Republicans versus Democrats, but as good people standing in the gap elected to do a job that we all ran to do.
BREAM: Today, Scott is sharing his story of growing up poor inspired by his mother.
SCOTT: My mom said, we could be victims or victors. She chose victorious.
BREAM: He's focused on the positive but he's taking shots at President Biden.
SCOTT: I understand that President Biden lives in the past because he's been in Washington for 50 years.
BREAM: He is drawn serious 2024 speculation but is now in the spot to make the case for himself.
SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: What are the differences in terms of policy positions that's, for example, you may have with President Trump.
SCOTT: Probably not very many at all.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BREAM: So, joining us now to discuss his potential White House run, South Carolina Senator Tim Scott.
Senator, welcome back to "FOX News Sunday".
SEN. TIM SCOTT (R-SC): Good morning, Shannon. I hope you're doing well.
BREAM: I am. I hope you are as well. I'm sure you're a bit jetlagged because you spent a lot of time in Iowa and that's gotten a lot of notice. You've been testing a message there.
Do you now see a lane for you in the 2024 GOP primary?
SCOTT: You know, Shannon, more importantly than a lane for me is, do we have lane for young kids growing up in single-parent households like I did? Looking at moms, single mothers who are working 16 hours a day like my mom did, can we make sure the lane to the American Dream is wide open for them?
I spent the day with Governor Reynolds who just passed monumental school choice reform, a powerful tool to make sure that parents have a choice and kids have a chance.
So, my focus is still on the mission of making sure that every single American believes that the American Dream is achievable for them.
BREAM: So, you talk with an optimistic message, and we talked about how you are highlighting faith not only in the religious sense, but that you want Americans to have faith in each other.
I want to put up our recent FOX News poll --
SCOTT: Yes.Â
BREAM: -- about how Americans feel about things today. They say, we are dysfunctional family, 81 percent of them.
Is it realistic to believe that you or any other politician can get us out of our corners and get people back to a place where there isn't so much division?
SCOTT: There's no doubt, Shannon, that when you look at that poll, that's one of the reasons why I think it's really important for us to come forward and have an authentic and sincere conversation about the goodness of America. In today's society, the progressive left is trying to make America into grievance culture when in fact we've always stood on the foundation of greatness.
Our original sin should never define us because the story of redemption is what we've been living through more than 50-plus years. The greatest story of progress in the world is American progress in the last 50 years. I wish we'd spend more time talking about the goodness of this nation and stop the cancel culture.
BREAM: OK. Let's talk about this positive message in talking about things like cancel culture. Will it work?
"The New York Times" says this about your assets being optimistic and possibly history-making as the nominee. Both of those assets could prove to be a liability in today's Republican primary environment where voters rail against what they see is unfair favoritism toward people of color and where activists may be more interested in anger than optimism.
Everybody says they hate negative ads. They don't like the political sniping. But the numbers show us they actually worked.
So, will this optimistic message work?
SCOTT: Well, certainly, I think it's always worked. I mean, America is a country founded on the concept of hope.
Think about it this way -- a world without America is a very dark place. America without faith is a nation without hope. So we definitely have to continue to work on the foundation that we have stood upon for the last 250-plus years.
But in addition to that, we have to be able to contrast between why we are a great country and why the left wants us to talk about the grievance. The fact is that the left is trying to sell a drug of victimhood and a narcotic of despair.
The truth is we have so much to celebrate and yet today, in many parts of the country, you feel like you're in quicksand. We should not allow the zip code of a child to determine the quality of their life because education is the most powerful tool to equalize opportunity in this nation. But there are poor zip codes where that's not possible.
We have to do something about that as one American family and, frankly, governors like Kim Reynolds and others are starting to take that responsibility, and prove that we as the GOP, the great opportunity party, we love America, we love our kids, and frankly, we are the best hope for a united future.
BREAM: OK. I want to talk about school choice in a minute but a couple of other things about your --
SCOTT: Yes, ma'am.
BREAM: -- trip to Iowa.
So, not everybody thought your message was uplifting, including this one reporter from "The New York Magazine's" "Intelligencer". He says this: It's hard to recall a more stridently asserted expression of belief that the route to national peace and unity requires the subjugation of one party by the other, the Scott speech was a relentlessly partisan screed accusing Joe Biden and the left of pursuing a blueprint for ruining America.
So, how does that square with the message of us having faith in each other as Americans?
SCOTT: Well, Shannon, that's a great question. And once again, it goes back to the contrast that is necessary. I'm a hopeful guy not because I didn't have to overcome problems. I had a miserable beginning, growing up in a single-parent household mired in poverty, the challenges that I face from self-esteem to low grades were monumental.
I overcame those challenges with grit, hard work, and inspiration. And so, the truth is, the left today, they seem to be working on a blueprint on how to ruin America. If you wanted to ruin America, you would print and spend trillions of dollars leading to the highest inflation we've seen in 40 years.
Why is that negative to point out the fact that under Joe Biden's leadership, we've had the highest inflation in 40 years? Why is it negative to point out that we've had four and a half million people across our southern border illegally? Why is it negative to point out the fact that we've had 100,000 deaths to overdoses linked to fentanyl thousands upon thousands of those deaths?
If we don't understand the state of America and the weakness of the progressive movement, then it's impossible for us to offer positive optimistic solutions to the challenges that we face because of the progressive wing of the Democratic Party.
BREAM: You touch there and you do often about your personal story. It's very inspiriting and compelling to people whether they support you or not, but even your supporters say there has to been more.
An opinion piece very favorable to you says this: you're a talented candidate finding your theme, but you have to be careful not to substitute first-person narrative for an argument about why he is the right person to lead the country.
So if you get in, what is the argument for you policy-wise versus President Trump or anybody else who gets into this field? How are you different or better than the other options?
SCOTT: Well, Shannon, one of the things I love to take time to talk about, I hope we have about 30 minutes left to have this conversation is the policy --
(LAUGHTER)
BREAM: Slightly less.
SCOTT: OK, it sounds good.
The policy positions that I've taken. One of the most important parts of being in the majority was the opportunity we have with the Tax and Cut and Jobs Act. I had the good fortune to be the lead sponsor of the TCJA on the personal side of the tax code.
So I had the opportunity to help write that specific legislation. And we've lowered their taxes for a single mom by 70 percent. We promised to put more than $4,000 back in the average family's pocket, we ended up around $4,400.
We were able to lower unemployment for African-Americans, Hispanics and Asians to the lowest level in the history of the country and the lowest level since World War II for women.
We actually saw more money come to the Treasury with lower taxes than anyone imagined and at the exact same time, wages grew at the bottom faster than at the top.
I created opportunity zones, my signature legislation, that has seen more than $50 billion attack poverty in the hardest hit areas of the country.
At the same time I focused on education, I started the School Choice Caucus. We led to the highest level of funding for HBCUs In the history of the country and then we made it permanent.
I led on the vast majority of those pieces of legislation, I've worked on police reform where we want to make sure that the best wore the badge, that the officers have the best resources, the best training, and we never questioned their qualified immunity.
We had to stand in the gap when it matters the most -- that means leading from the front and not from the back.
BREAM: I want to make sure quickly if we can because I want to couple's -- to a couple of these issues.
SCOTT: Yes, ma'am.
BREAM: School choice. Lisa Lightner, a special education advocate, said what you do is end up hurting public schools when you let parents take the money elsewhere. She says the vision is that the same amount of money spread out over more schools, only the best would survive. If a public school has to compete with the charter or private school, it will find a way to become better.
But she asked, how can they improve if you take even more money from them? It's just not possible.
Your response?
SCOTT: So, let's look at Success Academy in New York City where you see the populations are about 87 percent minority and yet their schools are the top in the state of New York. What we've seen very consistently, charter schools gets about half the money as public schools, yet there are public charter schools that provide choice for the parents and better quality education.
Out of the top 25 percent of high schools in the nation, more than -- about 12 or about half of those are charter schools. So what we're seeing around the country is a success of some form of school choice.
And, by the way, I don't care whether it's a public school, a private school, a charter school, a STEM school, a home school, a virtual school, I want every child in every zip code to have quality education. That should improve all aspects of education, not reduce funding.
BREAM: So, I asked Ambassador Haley about this last week, that this article that says the GOP -- essentially U.N. Ambassador Haley give GOP cover on message of grace. It says, Scott's message is that racism is not an institutional or systemic problem, but an individual failing. That's precisely what conservatives want to hear so they can say, well, I'm not a racist, which means we don't have to do much of anything about racism.
SCOTT: The only word I can think of is hogwash. The fact of the matter is I was Austin on Friday having a conversation with several hundred GOPers and we talked specifically about how the Jim Crow South impacted my family specifically.
My grandfather made the choice to be stubborn in his faith, his faith in the future, faith in himself and faith in this nation. But we had to overcome those challenges.
What I don't like is when we hear President Biden talk about Jim Crow 2.0 when my family lived through Jim Crow, and that's when you had to figure out the number of jellybeans in the jar in order to cast a ballot. To suggest that the current Georgia election laws are consistent with Jim Crow is just a lie.
And so, what we have to do is make sure that we arm our people today with the challenges of today and not pretend like we're living in 1923 as opposed to 2023.
BREAM: All right. So, we have to go, Senator, but do you have a timeline for making an announcement or decision?
SCOTT: Well, I'm going to -- I made a decision to go to church at 11:30 today.
BREAM: I will be following you there after the show as well.
When you decide about your political future --
SCOTT: Amen.
BREAM: -- please let us know.
SCOTT: Yes, ma'am. Have a great day.
BREAM: Senator, thank you.
Up next, the war in Ukraine passes the one year mark amid growing concerns about shortages of military equipment in the U.S. and beyond. Democrat Senator Ben Cardin joins us next live.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BREAM: China wants the world to view it as a peacemaker, now calling for a cease-fire between Russia and Ukraine. But the move is prompting skepticism in the West amid reports that Beijing is considering providing Russia with military assistance.
Joining me now, Maryland Democrat Senator Ben Cardin, a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.
Senator, welcome back to "FOX News Sunday".
SEN. BEN CARDIN (D-MD): Good to be with you. Thank you, Shannon.
BREAM: And you're fresh back from Europe, where you sat down with leaders from all over the world to have these conversations about where you go next.
CARDIN: Absolutely. We were in Vienna. There was meetings of the OSCE, Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe's parliamentary assembly. We met with many delegations including the Ukrainians who were there in the city, not in the venue hall because of the Russian presence.
But we had an opportunity to show unity in support of Ukraine, to make clear that Russia -- this is Russia's war of aggression.
BREAM: Let's talk about this, the role of China here, because both Ukrainian president and the Russian president have said they plan too or they're going to meet with President Xi. So, China is right in the middle of this whole thing at this point.
We've got a brand-new Fox News poll out this morning that shows 68 percent of Americans think China is a major threat to that U.S., add another 26 percent who say there are some threats. That's 94 percent of Americans who really don't trust China.
What do you make of their growing role in the middle of this Russian- Ukrainian conflict?
CARDIN: I'm with the 68 percent. I do think China is a major threat against the United States.
Look, they're encouraging this war by working with Russia, now perhaps providing additional weapons for Russia to be able to pursue this war of aggression. This is an attack on the sovereignty of the democratic state. There's no question that Ukraine is the front line, but Russia will not stop there.
And China is assisting that, so China is a major threat against the United States.
BREAM: So, to that point about potentially sending overly lethal aid, "The Washington Post" reports on it, it says: If China does move forward, it'd be the first time that Beijing has done that in this conflict despite repeated warnings by the United States not to provide such support.
It doesn't sound like they are very afraid of our warnings.
CARDIN: Well, China needs to know there will be consequences. So, we've isolated Russia economically. We can do the same thing in regards to sanctions against China.
China needs to understand they need to be on the right side of history here. And an attack on the sovereignty of an independent state, what Russia has done as a war of aggression and China should be with us in the overwhelming majority of the world to speak out.
The vote in the United States Security Council -- General Assembly indicated the wide understanding of who is responsible for this war. China sat on the sidelines on that vote. That was wrong. But clearly, they should be on the right side of history.
BREAM: So China was among the 32 who abstained. They didn't want to vote on this measure that said that Russia's invasion was wrong and it has to stop. Secretary Blinken will also visit three countries this week, who did the same thing, they obtained for voting, so what should his message be to them?
CARDIN: You can't sit on the sidelines. You got to pick a side here and the one side is right, one side as wrong. Russia is wrong.
So, if you're assisting Russia, you are assisting an aggressor who is trying to invade the sovereignty of an independent state and your country could be next. So join us in standing up against this attack on sovereignty.
BREAM: I want to put up some brand new polling that we got this morning. There is a measurement of President Biden's job performance on the number of things. The top four all relate to foreign policy: Russia, Ukraine, the Chinese spy balloon, national security, foreign policy.
He is upside down on all of that, and the disapproval outweighing the approval. So Americans think that the president is failing on these foreign-policy fronts and a majority of Democrats who are primary voters when asked about whether they want him to run again, 53 percent say they want to see someone else.
Where do you stand on that? Should he run again?
CARDIN: I think President Biden has shown not only global leadership for the United States. I saw that at this meeting where the U.S. and President Biden were so respected, his visit to Kyiv, his address in Warsaw. It really reunited the free world.
And domestically, I think the ability to pass up a major agenda during the first two years shows that he knows how to handle our domestic agenda, rebuild our infrastructure, deal with the CHIPS and Science bill, to take on China as international competitor, to deal with climate change.
I think his leadership has been very valuable for our country and I think he will be shown historically to have been a very effective president.
BREAM: Why do you think the polls don't reflect that? Because the numbers getting worse when you get into things like immigration, inflation, the economy. People are increasingly thinking this president is not getting the job done.
CARDIN: I think the challenges of typical American families has high -- there's high prices. We have to deal with that. The reality that it's difficult to make ends meet.
I think President Biden understands. He's clearly addressed inflation. We've reduced inflation in this country, but I think it's difficult today for a family and that's reflected in some of the popular polls.
BREAM: It is. Okay, so let's go -- I want to get more of the foreign policy stuff because we're a year into this now, and we're now hearing increasing concerns about inventory, what we can provide and others around the world can provide in Ukraine.
The Army secretary said this week it could be 2024, or 2025, by the time it takes that we've -- pledge can actually get there. The Center for Strategic and International Studies says six critical U.S. systems, these are missiles, ammunition, those kinds of things, artillery, are getting depleted. They say most inventories will take many years to replace and inventory replenishment will become an increasingly pressing problem.
And then the secretary-general of NATO said this on Thursday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENS STOLTENBERG, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: The challenge now is that the consumption of artillery shells is higher our production. So far, we have depleted our stocks, but this is not sustainable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BREAM: So, how do we deal with the reality that the U.S. and other, you know, Western nations who are trying to help Ukraine here are running short on military supplies? We don't have a good plan for replenishing them and how vulnerable that may lead us if we end up in another conflict somewhere else, god forbid, China and Taiwan?
CARDIN: Let me tell you, Russia is depleting its supplies. It's having a challenge supplying their troops with the necessary equipment to pursue this war of aggression.
We clearly have been extremely helpful to Ukraine. They have acknowledged that. It's not just the United States. It's really been our coalition.
Yes, we need to replenish the equipment and make more sophisticated equipment available. We need to bring this war to an end with Ukraine's victory and that means supplying them with the equipment they need to successfully defend their sovereignty.
It's going to be a challenge, make no mistake about it, but we've had coordination on the supply chains and we've been very effective in supplying it. There's a limit as to what Ukrainians can use, but we have to make sure they have everything they need.
BREAM: What about our impact of being able to replenish that inventory we talked about? This report talks about how many years it would take us to catch up. If this conflict, unfortunately, nobody sees the end in sight or the finish line, where does that leave us vulnerable to other places in a world were we may get drawn into conflicts?
CARDIN: We have what we need to defend ourselves. We are continuing to replenish what we need. We're not going to go below a critical level in order to defend our national security.
But make no mistake about it: our national security is on the front line in Ukraine today. It's in the United States' interest to make sure that Ukraine wins this war. So our investments here are to help us defend our own country.
BREAM: You know there are those -- your colleagues are among them on the Hill who are calling for more of an articulation from the White House about what our national security interests are there, where our commitments begun and end there.
Mike Lee, Republican senator, tweeted this out this week. He says: After sending $113 billion to Ukraine in 2022, why should the U.S. even consider sending more money until every NATO member has begun spending at least 2 percent of its GDP on defense and has been at least as much of its GDP on the Ukraine aid as the U.S. did in 2022?
Does he have a point?
CARDIN: Well, we do believe that every NATO should spend at least 2 percent on defense and we have a game plan to make that a reality and we've seen tremendous progress on our NATO allies. What we need to do, of course, we have Sweden and Finland. We need to expand NATO to include those two countries. We're in the process of doing that.
We want our European allies to do their fair share and they are moving in the right direction.
But make no mistake about it: Ukraine needs our help now. We have to supply the help now because it's a critical moment in the battle.
We don't want this to be a long campaign. We want to win is quickly as possible. We want to help Ukraine achieve those objects.
BREAM: Andy McCarthy, our colleague here at FOX, wrote a piece this week and he talked about how far we are willing to go. If you're estimating $100 billion to $200 billion a year, do we do that for three years, five years, eight years? And Andy says, if we're going to do that, we have to decide what we cut on this time domestically.
As you know, we've already hit the debt -- the debt ceiling. You guys are going to have some tough votes. Or does that mean that this bill just goes to our children and grandchildren? How do we balance those competing fiscal interests?
CARDIN: Shannon, it's a great question. We have to deal with the budget realities and we have to come together, Democrats and Republicans. We have, as you know, the House is controlled by Republicans. The Senate, us (ph) Democrats.
We've got come together for the budget plan for our country. National security has to be a priority. The amount of resources were putting into Ukraine will come back to benefit us in the long run.
So we really need to make sure they have everything they need to win this campaign. That's the immediate issue is to make sure Ukraine wins this war. But we also have to make sure that we stay strong in our national defense and our domestic priorities are also funded and do it in a responsible way that does not add to the deficits of this country, recognizing it's not fair for our children and grandchildren.
BREAM: Yeah. We wish you all of you on Capitol Hill good luck with figuring that out.
Senator, thanks for coming in. Always good to have you.
CARDIN: Thank you.
BREAM: Up next, we will talk 2024 and share our brand-new FOX News polls just this hour. We'll bring in our Sunday group next for a look at where Republican voters stand when it comes to the big names in their party, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BREAM: We've got brand-new Fox News polls this morning. And one year out from the 2024 primaries, we have a deep dive into which names voters want to see on the ballot.
Right now, 43 percent of Republican primary voters chose Donald Trump as their preferred nominee. That's followed by Ron DeSantis with 28 percent. Nikki Haley and Mike Pence each at 7 percent. Texas Governor Greg Abbott and former Wyoming Congresswoman Liz Cheney each at 2 percent. All others getting 1 percent or less.
Meanwhile, on the Democratic side, 53 percent of primary voters would like to see someone other than Joe Biden run, but 37 percent say they do want to see the president back on the ticket.
Let's run the numbers with our Sunday group.
District Media Group President Beverly Hallberg, Axiom Strategies co- founder and CEO Jeff Roe, former DNC communications director Mo Elleithee, and "Axios" senior politics reporter Josh Kraushaar.
Welcome, everybody.
JEFF ROE, FOUNDER AND CEO, AXIOM STRATEGIES: Good morning.
BEVERLY HALLBERG, PRESIDENT, DISTRICT MEDIA GROUP: Thank you.
BREAM: OK, so we want to put that back up, the GOP poll. There are a lot of names on there. One of them you heard from a short time ago, Tim Scott.
Jeff, does it make sense for him to get in? Do you see a lane?
ROE: Sure. Absolutely. He should get in. He's a great voice for the Republican Party. He's been a great senator. But the reality is, is this is a two-person race between Donald Trump and Ron DeSantis. Nearly 75 percent of the voters have chosen between those two. We've not seen that from a governor or even frankly a senator have that kind of strength this early in a - in a presidential primary.
So, the reality is, this will be a very small field. A lot of people were talking about a crazy barroom brawl. I don't think so at all. I think it's going to be a small field because the money's not there, the debate stage rules will keep it very limited. Yet have to have a donor threshold, you have to have national polling, and there's simply no room for a - for a third and fourth or even fifth person in this race.
BREAM: So, Beverly, anybody else getting in at this point? Is it a waste of time or are they running for VP? What are they doing?
HALLBERG: Well, I think they're running for just the name identity, whether that is for VP or for other purposes as well because think even when Donald Trump ran initially for president, I don't think he thought he was going to get the nomination, but it does great things for people 's businesses, et cetera.
But I think what we're going to be looking for is how long people stay in. So, I agree, it's going to be the two-person race between Ron DeSantis and Trump more than likely . But if people are for anybody but Trump on the Republican side, the more crowded the field is, the harder it's going to be for anybody to defeat him in the primary. So, it depends on whether or not certain Republicans are going to coalesce together to try to get people to jump out quicker.
BREAM: Yes, and, Josh, we're talking about Ron DeSantis. The governor's not in the race, yet.
JOSH KRAUSHAAR, SENIOR POLITICS REPORTER, "AXIOS": He's not in the race. And, boy, that number for Donald Trump, 43 percent of the Republican vote, it is - it is significant. And you underestimate -- every Republican would underestimate Donald Trump at their own risk.
He's had a - quietly had a pretty good political month in terms of doing some of these retail events in South Carolina that he didn't do a whole lot during the 2020 campaign. His trip to East Palestine, Ohio, ahead of Pete Buttigieg, going to McDonald's. He's shown sort of a common touch that he had trouble with, frankly, when he was president and running for re- election.
So, these numbers show that Trump is still formidable within the Republican Party. And I agree with Jeff, Ron DeSantis, if he does get in, is going to be the - the other big elephant in the room. But, boy, like Trump, any - you know, you're not hearing a lot of Republicans going after Trump. They're going after DeSantis or trying to figure out where they stand in the party. And I think they do that at there own peril because Trump is still very, very popular within the Republican Party.
BREAM: Yes, and it's tricky for them because when you press them on where they're different or why they're a better option, they don't want to go directly at President Trump at this point. And the poll probably shows a good reason why.
OK, another poll. We asked people, how much money do you have in your pocket versus last year. Here are the numbers. More, 12 percent. Good for those folks. The same, 31 percent. Less, 57 percent. And that is, I mean, a huge jump from -- if you look back to February 2018, just a couple years ago, under the Trump presidency.
Mo, that may be part of the reason why folks say they aren't excited for a President Biden repeat.
MO ELLEITHEE, GEORGETOWN INSTITUTE OF POLITICS AND PUBLIC SERVICE: Yes, look, I think the economy is as good as people think it is, right?
BREAM: Perception.
ELLEITHEE: And when it comes to politics, perception really matters. The president has a really compelling argument to make about how the economy has gotten stronger under him. But people haven't felt it. And there's a simple rule in political communications, you can't go out there and tell people that they're wrong about how they feel. So, even though he can, and he should, continue to go out there and make the case about why the economy is stronger and how it's getting better, the next part is the most important part, and this is when too many people oftentimes flub in politics, we're getting better, but not enough people are feeling it and here's what we're going to do next. That has to be with this president talks about every single day for the next two years. And I think he's well- positioned to do it. And I think the way this Republican field is shaping up actually gives him even more room to do it because if the Republican field is out there talking about how woke the left is, and the president is out there saying the economy is getting stronger but not enough people are feeling it and here's how we're going to make sure you do, that's a contrast Democrats would really like to have.
BREAM: Does anybody think President Biden deciding not to run?
ELLEITHEE: No.
BREAM: We think it's just a matter of time?
ELLEITHEE: Yes.
BREAM: OK, so, let's put up his approval on any number of issues. This is a crowded picture, but we want to let you see. So, we talked about this. I talked about this with Senator Cardin. The top four are all foreign policy. He's upside down on all of those. The numbers only get worse when you get into opioids, gun, immigration, economy, inflation. Inflation, he's down by, I'm not great at math, but 35 points, I think.
So, Beverly, what does he do with that? How does he turn around those perceptions? Like Mo said, perception is reality for a lot of folks when they're trying to pay their bills and put food on the table.
HALLBERG: Well, I think he's had a poor message. He'll talk about how good the economy is, but yet when people go to the grocery store, even if they can afford it, they're looking at what eggs cost, they're looking at also what gas costs, and it has gone down a bit, but people are seeing those numbers in real-time. And so he can say all he wants, that things are great, but if people see something different, it's not going to resonate. I think he would do better if he actually talked about the pain people are feeling, acknowledging that, talking about what he is trying to do to lower that. I think that would be a better message for him.
BREAM: So, we have this potential third-party wrench. I don't know, third- party or not, but we're talking about Senator Joe Manchin. He had a radio interview this week. "The Hill" reports on it this way. When pressed further on whether he has definitively ruled out a bid for the presidency, Manchin responded, I don't know. I think right now you don't know who the Democrat nominee or who the Republican nominee is going to be. Manchin responded, that's fair when radio host Hoppy Kercheval said he thinks the senator is still considering running for the presidency.
So, Jeff, does he run as a Democrat? Does he run as of third parties spoiler?
ROE: That sounds like he's not running for re-election is what that sounds like because I have a better chance of winning South Carolina than Joe Manchin does against Joe Biden. So, I think they're in a pickle here with Biden. They can't get rid of him. They can't let him run. And so if it's anyone besides Trump, it's a real problem because Trump provides the base motivation for Democrats. That's what took us from a historical 125 million votes turnout for a Republican presidential election, to 150 last time. And so I think that's their hope, that they get the rematch that they want and the rest of the country really isn't looking for.
BREAM: Well, and, Mo, President Trump has not committed to supporting the GOP nominee if it's not him. So there's also this ulcer making scenario for the GOP that he decides to run as a third-party candidate.
ELLEITHEE: Yes, look, I think there's many Republicans who sweat Donald Trump as there are Democrats who sweat Donald Trump. I think he is - he is a walking grenade in any room of politics, right? You never know when he goes off and what it does.
But I'll say this, I don't know what happens in 2024 because I think there are a lot of questions out there about what each candidate does. Ron DeSantis looks super strong, but Ron DeSantis has never been tested on the national stage. He could get on a national debate stage - remember, at this point in 2016 -- in 2015, I guess, Jeb Bush looked really strong for Republicans. Eight years before that, Rudy Giuliani looked really strong for Republicans, before they got tested. DeSantis hasn't been tested. If I'm on the Biden campaign, the guy I'm looking at the most closely is a Tim Scott, who has a way to talk about issues different than the rest of them who are all out there trying to be out anti-woke, out to - out anti-woke one another. That's not what's going to resonate in a general election.
So, I -- I don't know what happens. I think the president knows what he needs to do. And if he's focused on that, I think he'll get a few assists from the Republican candidates along the way.
BREAM: OK. Quick break here because we've got a lot more to discuss.
Up next, Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene kicked off a heated debate this week tweeting about what she called, quote, national divorce. (INAUDIBLE) will talk of that and much more as the congresswoman doubles down.
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REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): This isn't ending our union. This is shrinking the federal government, which we need to stop our spending.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EMILY KOHRS, GEORGIA GRAND JURY FOREWOMAN: Honestly, I kind of wanted to subpoena the former president because I get to swear everyone in. And so I thought it would be really cool to get 60 seconds with President Trump of me looking at him and being like, do you solemnly swear, and me getting to swear him in. I just - I kind of just thought that would be an awesome moment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BREAM: That's the forewoman of the special purpose grand jury that investigated then President Trump's actions in Georgia after the 2020 election. She made a lot of headlines this week, raise some eyebrows with her candor.
We are back now with the panel.
All right, Josh, "National Review" wrote on this and said essentially, this may be a lucky break for President Trump. They say, if Emily Kohrs, who was that foreperson, and Fani Willis, the DA, helped Trump convince Republican primary voters that the Democrats' quite to indict him here, there and everywhere is a politicized abuse of power, his bid for the GOP nomination could get a big boost.
Is this potentially - we're waiting on potential indictments. We have no idea what's going to happen there. But does this - her media tour actually help the Trump team?
KRAUSHAAR: Well, first, by the way, that was not a "Saturday Night Live" sketch, even though she was parodied on "Saturday Night Live." And, look, I think the bigger picture here is that the way Trump is defeated is through the political system, not - not the legal system. And I think Democrats have put all their chips in this basket that some prosecutor, whether, you know, it's here in D.C., or Fani Willis is Fulton County, is going to have the smoking gun that's going to take Trump out of the political race. And that's just not going to happen.
And, look, even if he is indicted, there's some evidence that that - as this - this foreman has said might happen, there's going to be a lot of question for the Trump campaign rightfully is going to raise about credibility and impartiality that could taint the case before it begins. So, you know, the notion that this is - there's one legal case that's going to change the political dynamic has always been wrong. And I think Democrats have had a hard time learning that lesson.
BREAM: OK, now, she mentioned this week, he was out doing some things that are playing well with a lot of people. We've got him in Ohio this week going to the scene of the trained derailment in East Palestine while, you know, the Biden administration was taking a lot of heat for not getting there.
The president, it seems like he says he doesn't have a plan to go. When he was pressed on whether he'd even talked to the local mayor there, he said, I don't think I have. But guess who has, Donald Trump has been there and talked to him. So, missed opportunity, Mo, for the administration.
ELLEITHEE: I - I think a lot of people wish they had been their a little bit sooner, but I don't necessarily think it was a total missed opportunity. I think the ongoing federal response is what's going to matter. The fact that they are holding Norfolk Southern accountable and have been very aggressive with that is going to matter.
Look, people there are unhappy with everybody right now. They're unhappy with the federal government. They're unhappy with the Republican governor. People want to see more reaction.
I don't think Donald Trump going to hand out water and cleaning supplies is really going to turn people one way or another. It actually reminds me very much of his response to the hurricane in Puerto Rico when he was president and he went and he tossed out water bottles and paper towels. And, you know what, all these years later, Puerto Rico is still dealing with the ramifications of that.
So, it was a political stunt, but I think the administration knows that it can't allow itself to be seen as absent. And so ramping up that response, showing themselves on the ground more. When Trump shows up making the point that, you know, this happened in part because of the deregulations that he put in place as president, but focusing on the cleanup as quickly as possible.
BREAM: Well - OK. But the NTSB seems to suggest that's not the case with the overheated axel. It wasn't an issue of the brakes and - and that kind of regulatory issue. So that debate continues.
ELLEITHEE: But they still did roll back regulations at a time when people are feeling like maybe there ought to be more. So, there's a political fight to be had. I think the administration is right to focus more on the cleanup and getting people back on track.
BREAM: OK.
Secretary Buttigieg got there after President Trump did. Here's what he said.
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PETE BUTTIGIEG, TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: What I tried to do was balance two things, my desire to be involved and engaged and on the ground, which is how I am generally wired to act, and my desire to follow the norm of transportation secretaries, allowing NTSB to really lead the initial stages of the public facing (ph) work (ph). I wasn't (ph) thinking about whether I got that balance right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BREAM: Jeff, a lot of people are questioning whether he got that balance right.
ROE: It was bad. It was a bad moment for the administration. Trump was handing out water. He was the first one there. And Buttigieg is handing out apologies. So the entire optics were bad to start with.
And then I would have thought, of all the cabinet secretaries, the one person that wouldn't need fashion advice would be Mayor Pete with his boots - and the fancy boots, and that was a whole moment.
But the reality is, the number one thing you do, when there's a - when there's a tragedy, is be there. And be there early. And they didn't do that. Trump beat him to it. He sucked the oxygen out of the Ukraine visit that Joe Biden had. And so it just was a win for the - for the Trump campaign and a bad, bad look for the Biden administration.
BREAM: And the White House will say they had federal crews and assets there on the ground the day after the wreck. The big names weren't there. We haven't - I don't think the president will go, but to have a cabinet secretary, you know, that was later for them. But there have been assets there on the ground, to be fair.
OK, so let's talk about Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene and this national divorce idea. Here's one of her tweets. This is not the original, but she's had many. She said, people saying national divorce is a bad idea because the left will never stop trying to control less is literally making the case for national divorce. We don't want a civil war. We're not surrendering. We're tired of completing with no change and want to protect our way of life.
I mean, Beverly, this gets back to some of the earlier polling I talked about with Senator Scott. People feel very divided in this country.
HALLBERG: Well, I think it's notable that we have a sitting member of Congress who's advocating for breaking up the United States. So, that's one thing. It's an easy thing to tweet. It's a hard thing to do in practice, especially during Covid when you see how many people have left blue areas, how would we actually practically do this where you have blue cities in red states.
The focus should be on federalism and the focus should actually be on a melting pot and being able to disagree with people in an agreeable way. That's what we need to look to, not divide the country.
BREAM: Yes, over on "National Review," Professor Wilfred Riley (ph) calls it an insanely bad idea. He says, when we're fighting a proxy war with Russia and China looms as a long-term rival or enemy, doing so would reduce America's size and power by have. Xi Jinping would cut off his own right arm to see this happen.
Josh.
KRAUSHAAR: Yes, not only is it unrealistic, but the political divides are within the states, not state verses state, but like her -- her home - home state of Georgia, Atlanta is becoming very, very blue and the rural parts of the state are - are very, very red. So, I don't know how you have a succession movement within your state. So, it just not only is unrealistic, but it doesn't understand the reality of politics today.
BREAM: All right, we've got to leave it there, panel. Thank you very much. We'll see you next Sunday.
HALLBERG: Thank you.
BREAM: Up next, my conversation with an artist whose work you are likely very familiar with, even if you've never realized it. How he's taken you inside some of America's biggest, most notable court cases for decades.
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BREAM: As many of you know, I enjoy pulling double duty here at Fox. I also cover the Supreme Court. And as you also know, there are no cameras allowed inside the high court during arguments. So, over the years, I've gotten to know one of the artists who's done the most to show you what unfolds there as the justices hear the cases that impact all of us.
I spoke with him about his very unique role, capturing what happens behind closed doors at the highest court in the land and high-profile cases all across the country.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM J. HENNESSY, JR., COURTROOM ARTIST: I want them to feel as though they're there. I'm not trying to shade it in any particular way. And that's my responsibility. That's my job.
BREAM (voice over): You don't know his face, but you do know his work. In a city where courtroom drama drives news but cameras are rarely invited in, artist Bill Hennessy is there with his pencils and paper.
HENNESSY: I try to do more than just statically (ph) record what's there, but actually kind of catch the energy and the emotion of what's there.
BREAM: It's a profession he stumbled into as a young art student.
HENNESSY: Our department got a phone call. The woman at the door said, hey, there's a TV station on the phone. Would anybody be interested in drawing in a courtroom? And I jumped at it. And much to my surprise, it's been over 40 years.
BREAM (on camera): At what point did you transition to, this is going to be the work that I do?
HENNESSY: It was crazy. The whole concept of it was basically, you know, so like imagine, just wherever you are, walking into a room full of, you know, 50 people and say, quick, we need a drawing of this. And I was like, I'm -- what do I draw here? I really had to think like a journalist. Well, I finally got a grasp on it and said, OK, I can -- I can do this.
BREAM (voice over): Today, his sketches are a staple of television news, telling the story of the nation 's most consequential cases.
BREAM (on camera): You've been in celebrity trials, terrorism trials, a lot of big Supreme Court cases. What are some of the standouts for you?
HENNESSY: Oh my gosh. You know, that's almost impossible.
BREAM (voice over): He sketched former Washington, D.C., Mayor Marion Barry, the D.C. sniper case, the Amber Heard and Johnny Depp defamation trial, and a young woman who interned in the Clinton White House.
HENNESSY: Rumor was, there was no blue dress, there was -- she wasn't going to testify. And it was like, we've been waiting for months, and nothing is going to come of this. And then the word was, oh, yes, there is a blue dress. They have it. Oh, actually Monica is going to testify.
BREAM: He also sketched that intern's former boss.
HENNESSY: The first impeachment, that really struck me because I had this sort of front row seat in the press gallery looking down on all that. I remember being just overwhelmed by that. And I remember this from government class, this never happens. It's so rare. There have been three now.
BREAM (on camera): Do you feel pressure when it's somebody that is a recognizable figure?
HENNESSY: Absolutely. That is - that weighs heavily.
When it's someone they know, they are looking to make sure you get it accurately. But, at the end of the day, you got to finish, you're done, it airs and that's the beset you could do and you move on to the next case.
BREAM (voice over): His pencils have seen a lot.
BREAM (on camera): Are there moments when you're sitting in a trial and something shocking happens and you stop where you're at and think, this is going to be a very different sketch.
HENNESSY: There's a lot of things happen that you don't expect. And that's what you've got - really got to be ready for, because that can be the story.
BREAM (voice over): Sometimes that story is outside the courtroom.
HENNESSY: I heard a commotion from the floor above and this shirtless guy comes flying down the escalator. I mean he's like going eight, 10 steps at a time, and he was moving. And he was being pursued by like four court marshals. It was crazy.
The amazing thing about that is, if you look at that sketch, at the bottom there's a woman standing at the bottom of the escalator. She put her foot out and tripped him.
BREAM: Inside the courtroom, Hennessy has perfected the speed of his craft.
BREAM (on camera): I see you in the courtroom. We're listening to arguments. I'm furiously scribbling my notes. You're there working in real time on these sketches. It is going as the case is going.
HENNESSY: Right. Right. I mean that's what's kind of cool about it, but also what's kind of crazy about it.
BREAM: Well, you're in institution. You walk into these courtroom and people know Bill Hennessy is here. This is a trial of import and he's going to make sure that the public gets to see what's happening in here.
HENNESSY: Well, I appreciate that. I mean I - I do have a lot of friends and got to know a lot of really great people over the years.
This is what I was talking about. So, I -
BREAM (voice over): I've seen Hennessy over those years in my time covering the court's most historic cases.
BREAM (on camera): And that case at the top there was a really big moment in history. That's the Dobbs case that ended up overturning Roe v. Wade.
HENNESSY: That's right. That's right. That was Dobbs. And, actually, there's a reporter in there you might recognize.
BREAM: I was so excited to find out I made it into a Bill Hennessy sketch.
BREAM (voice over): In today's world of instant, digital news coverage, sketching might seem old school, but Hennessy says otherwise.
HENNESSY: It has changed. Now, 24-hour news, they want it immediately, as fast - almost as soon as the - the gavel strikes, court's adjourned, it's like, how soon can you have that? My method of working lends itself to this, because I draw fast and I like that kind of energy. Now it's - it's more demanding than ever.
BREAM (on camera): Do you ever think about the legacy and these moments in time that you've captured? No camera could ever be there, but your artwork is going to be what we have.
HENNESSY: I haven't really dwelled too much on that.
Yes, that is pretty special in - in that regard. I'm going to let my kids figure out what the heck to do with all this - all those historical images.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BREAM: And I will see Bill over at the high court this week. We'll both be there covering the arguments on student loan forgiveness by the president.
Before we go, we want to let you know, my colleague, Bret Baier, sat down with - or he will with FBI Director Christopher Wray this week. You can catch the exclusive interview Tuesday, 6:00 p.m. Eastern during "SPECIAL REPORT WITH BRET BAIER" on Fox News Channel.
And a quick note, my podcast, "Livin' the Bream," drops this morning, 10:00 a.m. Eastern. This week I sit down with Pastor Greg Laurie, whose life is at the center of a new movie hitting theaters this week, "Jesus Revolution." It's the story of a massive cultural and religious movement and the `70s that led to that famous "Time" magazine cover, "The Jesus Revolution."
You can hear all of the interviews from today's program on the FOX NEWS SUNDAY podcast. You can download and subscribe by heading to foxnewspodcast.com or wherever you get your podcast to listen to any of the ones we produce here at Fox.
That is it for today. Thank you for joining us. I'm Shannon Bream. Have a great week. We'll see you next FOX NEWS SUNDAY.
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