This is a rush transcript of ‘Fox News Sunday’ on February 5, 2022. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
SHANNON BREAM, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: I'm Shannon Bream.
A mysterious spy balloon inflates tensions between the U.S. and China and ignites a firestorm over what happens next.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's the moon, but what the heck is that?
BREAM (voice-over): Days of uproar on social media as Americans and the Pentagon track the suspected Chinese surveillance device that appeared over the U.S.
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I ordered the Pentagon to shoot it down on Wednesday as soon as possible.
BREAM: The U.S. took it out. And China admits it was their airship but they deny it was spying on Americans.
Now, the secretary of state is putting off a trip to Beijing meant to reset relations and lawmakers demand more details on what the Pentagon knows.
We'll bring in Senator Tom Cotton, a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee.
Then --
BIDEN: These critics and cynics are wrong. Our plan is working.
BREAM: A jobs report win for President Biden ahead of his State of the Union Address, but recession concerns remain and brand-new Fox polls say Americans feel the pinch of inflation, no matter how many new jobs are created. We'll discuss with White House economic advisor Jared Bernstein.
And --
REP. ILHAN OMAR (D-MN): My leadership and voice will not be diminished.
BREAM: Republicans vote to remove Congresswoman Ilhan Omar from the Foreign Affairs Committee, citing her past comments on terrorism and Israel.
REP. MIKE LAWLER (R-NY): Individuals who hold such hateful view should rightly be barred from that type of committee.
REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): This is about targeting women of color.
BREAM: We'll ask our Sunday panel about the political battle over who gets a seat at the table.
Plus -- the beloved hostess who's been a source of support for thousands of college students for five decades, now Catholic University is giving Ms. Willie, a lasting tribute.
All, right now, on "FOX News Sunday".
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BREAM (on camera): Hello from FOX News in Washington.
The president is just two days away from his State of the Union Address. It's a critical moment as he sets agenda for the second half of his term and it's an opening salvo against challengers as he prepares for a likely run for reelection.
And take a look at this moment, as the U.S. took out a Chinese surveillance balloon, it's the end of a strange incident, but it's only the beginning of diplomatic turbulence between two super powers. U.S. official saying its presence over the U.S. was, quote, intentional. We'll get to both stories and more this morning.
In a moment, we will speak live with Arkansas Republican Tom Cotton, who is a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee.
But, first, let's turn to Lucas Tomlinson live at the White House with reaction from Chinese leaders this morning.
Hello, Lucas.
LUCAS TOMLINSON, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Shannon, China calls the shoot down of its balloon an overreaction and says it, quote, reserves right to make further responses if necessary. President Biden said he gave the order to shoot it down on Wednesday, when it was safe to do so.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BIDEN: They decided that the best time to do that when it got over water.
TOMLINSON: FOX News exclusive video shows the moment an F-22 Raptor out of Langley Air Force destroyed the balloon with a sidewinder heat-seeking missile at 2:39 p.m. Saturday, six miles off the coast of South Carolina in U.S. territorial waters.
Pentagon officials say the debris field is seven miles long and 47 feet of water. U.S. Navy salvage teams will search for the wreckage.
Many Republicans asking what took so long.
Senator Ted Cruz tweeting: Absolutely the right thing to do. But Biden should have done it before the Chinese spy balloon went across the entire country.
U.S. officials tell FOX it's not the first time Chinese spy balloons have flown over the United States. About four months ago, a Chinese spy balloon crashed in the Pacific near Hawaii. Others were spotted over Texas and Florida, dating back to the Trump administration, but never previously acknowledged publicly.
The balloon's week-long odyssey overshadowing State of the Union plans.
BIDEN: Today, I'm happy to report that the State of the Union and the state of our economy is strong.
TOMLINSON: This weekend, the president heading to Camp David for final preps. The president likely to tout the 517,000 new jobs added in January, as well as spending on infrastructure and green technology.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TOMLINSON (on camera): Biden's State of the Union Address, a likely test run for is stump speech if he decides to run for re-election, which is expected. A new FOX News poll shows more Americans fear coming recession and 55 percent of Democrats say they're dissatisfied with the direction of the country -- Shannon.
BREAM: Yeah, we'll dig into those polls.
Lucas Tomlinson, reporting from the White House, Lucas, thank you very much.
Joining me now, Senator Tom Cotton, who sits on the Senate Intelligence Committee, also the author of "Only the Strong".
Senator, welcome back to "FOX News Sunday".
SEN. TOM COTTON (R-AR): Thank you, Shannon. It's good to be back with you.
BREAM: OK. So, you're in the Senate Intel Committee, maybe you can help us out a little more with this time line.
General Keane, familiar to our viewers, says it's his belief that we knew about this when it left mainland China. We would have a way to track it over the Pacific. He is questioning why we didn't take it out them.
Here's what "Bloomberg" said about why we didn't more about it after it entered U.S. airspace January 28th. It says: With such high profile trip at stake -- meaning the secretary of state going -- keeping it on the down-low was key. The White House opted not to inform the American public. Events, however, soon forced Biden's hand.
As Lucas has reported and folks I've talked to in the Pentagon say, there are these balloons that have gone over before. So at what point do you have to tell the American public or not?
COTTON: Well, Shannon, what began as spy balloon has become a trial balloon, testing President Biden's strength and resolve. And unfortunately, the president failed that test. And that's dangerous for the American people. The president was paralyzed for entire week by a balloon.
We should have shot this balloon down over the Aleutian Islands. We should have never allowed it to transit the entire continental United States. And I think there's a lot of open questions that the administration needs to answer to Congress on behalf of the American people about why they didn't.
I think part is the president's reluctance to take any action that will be viewed as provocative or confrontational towards the Chinese communists. I would say what's provocative and confrontation is sending spy balloon all across America.
But second, I do believe the administration wanted to salvage the secretary of state's trip on Friday night and they got through Thursday afternoon. Thankfully, civilians in Montana, in Billings, identified this balloon and blew the whistle on it, and finally, the administration fessed up to the American people. It took another 12 hours before the secretary of state cancelled what was an already an ill-advised trip.
So, I think there's a lot of answers that the administration provide the American people.
BREAM: So, let me ask you about that, because you called immediately for the trip to be cancelled.
So, former Vice President Mike Pence did a different take. He did agree with you, shoot down the Chinese balloon. But he said, go ahead and send the secretary of state to China next week, have Secretary Blinken look them in the eye and tell them it better never happen again. That's peace through strength.
So, why not have Blinken go and have this confrontation face-to-face?
COTTON: Well, if the president had chosen to shoot down the balloon when he should have over the Aleutians when -- as soon as it entered our airspace, that might have been worth considering.
BREAM: Why do you think we didn't?
COTTON: Again, I think President Biden was hoping not to take any confrontational action towards the Chinese communist. He wants to continue to develop what he called the momentum from his meeting with Xi Jinping in Bali last November, even though China has never taken any steps to try to bring down the temperature.
And as I write in "Only the Strong", in many cases throughout history, Democratic presidents only take action like shooting down this balloon once their hand is forced. And I think on Thursday, when civilians in Montana identified this balloon, it -- well, it forced the president's hand.
I think it's an open question that if this not become public, if the administration had not briefed this matter to Congress Thursday afternoon after it was about to become public, whether the president would have shot down the balloon once it got over the Atlantic Ocean.
BREAM: What about this contention that these balloons have gone over the U.S. or some portion of the U.S. under previous administrations and they didn't shoot it down that we know of?
COTTON: So, I have spoken to a lot of former Trump administration officials. They say they're not aware of anything like this happening during their administration. It's possible maybe that happened first during the Obama administration and the military was told at the time that this is no big deal and they shouldn't raise the alarm bells on it.
We need to get answers to that as well, though. I think some may be conflating what Lucas just reported, you know, balloons floating within the 12-mile exclusionary zones of places like Hawaii or Guam and a spy balloon going all across the middle of the country, those are two very different circumstances.
Maybe what's even more worrisome is, one, did our senior military know about these balloons in the past and not inform their civilian superiors during the Trump administration? Or maybe worst of all, did we not know about these balloons in the past and we only learned them in retrospect by studying historical data?
Again, these are all open questions for which the American people deserve answers and we in Congress are going to get those answers.
BREAM: OK. So, you heard the Chinese government's reaction. They say they reserve the right to make further responses, if necessary. And, last week, sitting right where you are, the chair of the House Foreign Affairs Committee said he agreed with -- hoped it wasn't true, but a general who'd spoken up and said to his troops, I think we could be in conflict with China, actual war by 2025.
So, where do you put the temperature this morning?
COTTON: Well, China has been waging a cold war against the United States for decades and, unfortunately, not many of our leaders have acknowledged that, they want to deny that it's happening. But when a nation like China is waging a cold war against us, the only choice is whether to win or to lose.
And I think this spy balloon that so vividly went across America is a very high-profile reminder to Americans about what the Chinese communist have been up to. I got to tell you viewers, if they're worried about a spy balloon flying across middle of America, let me tell them about the TikTok app that they may have on their phone and what it means for their security and their privacy and that of their children, as well.
BREAM: And it seemed like there's a lot of bipartisan pushback and call for us to do something more about that as well, if not out right banning it.
OK. The president's supporters say that this actually illustrates that he's doing good job with China. And opinion piece in "Washington Post" talks about the spy -- the spy balloon as clumsy attempt by China. They say it shows its immense capacity to blunder, a tendency that President Biden's team has lately exploited to devastating effect. The Biden team has inflicted a series of humiliation on its chief rival.
They point to the semiconductor embargo out of China, the Philippines expanding access to the U.S. military and other things. They say he's actually doing a good job.
COTTON: Well, unfortunately, I think the humiliation this week was inflicted by Chinese communist on the president. Again, we should have shot this balloon over the Aleutians as opposed to letting it float all across Middle America on its merry way.
I mean, the idea that we are going to let this go all across America, that a spy balloon complete its spy mission before we shot it down I'm afraid is an embarrassment to the United States, not an embarrassment to the Chinese communist who are constantly pushing the envelope, constantly probing to see how far they can get away with these maligned actions and, unfortunately, I think they feel that they probably got away with it here.
BREAM: OK. Let's talk about classified documents. You all were briefed about documents that were found in possession of former President Trump, current President Biden, but you weren't allowed to see the documents. There's been bipartisan frustration expressed about that.
But the DOJ sent a letter to the Intel Committee, or at least a couple of the top senators back in January 28the. They said: The committee's interest in overseeing the nation's intelligence activities must be carefully balanced to protect the conduct and integrity of law enforcement investigations.
So, we have two special counsels now. You've threatened to shut down some Senate business over this and your Democratic colleagues say you're looking for any excuse to shut down business in the Democratic-controlled Senate.
What will you do to get your hands on the documents?
COTTON: Well, there's not a lot of business going on, first of all. We had three votes in first month of Senate.
But I would say, we haven't been briefed on the nature of these documents. We haven't seen the documents. We haven't had damage assessment. We haven't had them characterized, which is unacceptable.
When the Intelligence Committee's main function is to oversee these agencies that operate in secret, that Department of Justice letter is nonsense. We have an absolute right to review these documents, to make an informed judgment about what if any national security implications they may have had. Maybe they have none at all. Maybe they're just historical curiosities.
Whether there at Mar-a-Lago or President Biden's many mansions or offices, or at Mike Pence's home as well, maybe there's grave damage. We have to see the documents to make that assessment.
Now, I will say that Chairman Mark Warner and the Vice Chair Marco Rubio have been leading our committee in a strong, bipartisan, unanimous fashion to try to get action on these documents and I hope the administration responds to their inquiries.
BREAM: Will you block judicial nominees over it?
COTTON: I'm not going to take that step yet, because again Chairman Warner and Vice Chair Marco Rubio speaking for the unanimous committee have been working cooperatively, trying to get access to these documents. I hope it doesn't come to that.
I will say this whole incident, though, raises another example of a troubling double standards that the Department of Justice has applied. With Donald Trump, you had the FBI raiding Mar-a-Lago. With Mike Pence, you had the FBI showing up within hours of himself reporting the presence of certain classified documents at his home. But with Joe Biden, they were allowed to work through private lawyers representing the interest of the president before they conducted these searches.
We still have no characterization at all in the media about what was in these documents. Within hours of the Mike Pence revelation, certain media outlets were -- have gotten leaks from the Department of Justice or the FBI what was in those documents, just like you had with Mar-a-Lago.
So, the double standard you see here is the double standard that the department has been applying time and time again these two last years. And it's very troubling to most Americans.
BREAM: Do you have comment on the special counsel investigations?
COTTON: I'll say this, the special counsel investigation is looking into whether any action may have been illegal. That's not the focus of the Intelligence Committee.
That's why our review of these documents doesn't bear at all on their investigation. We're reviewing documents that are marked as classified for what the national security damage might have been, if any. That is totally different from the Department of Justice's inquiries into whether there's illegal activity related to those documents.
BREAM: All right. Keep us updated if you get a look at them.
COTTON: Thank you, Shannon.
BREAM: Senator, thank you.
Up next, we saw huge job report this week, but devil is in the details as economists and frankly the rest of us try to figure out whether we're facing a recession later this year. Jared Bernstein of the president's council of economic advisers joins me next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BREAM: Just two days from now, the president will try to set an optimistic tone in his State of the Union Address. But Republicans take a far gloomier view, saying the nation is saddled with debts and blaming the president for inflation.
Joining me now, one of the president's key economic advisors, Jared Bernstein.
Welcome back to "FOX News Sunday".
JARED BERNSTEIN, WHITE HOUSE COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC ADVISERS: I'm always excited to be here with you to talk about this economy and some of the numbers we've been posting.
BREAM: Yes. A fantastic jobs number on Friday. That is great for the country, for the administration, for the president, for what you're working on.
But it hasn't gotten to people's real life yet. So, let's take a look at what they're dealing with -- 166 million Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. The majority of people who are making more than $100,000 a year say that includes them, living paycheck to paycheck.
Retail spending has been down in several recent months. Inventory is up. Inflation has outpaced wage growth for 21 months, and gas prices are up again the last five weeks in a row.
So, when does the good news get to our real lives?
BERNSTEIN: Well, let me do a couple of quick fact checks on some of those statements.
So, first of all, actually, real wages have been growing for the past six or seven months, and one reason for that is because, again, unlike one of the bullet points there, gas prices came down sharply in the month of December. They turned around a bit partially in January. But one of the reasons inflation actually ticked down in December, it fell slightly, was because gas fell 9 percent that month.
So, the gas prices about a nickel below where it was when Putin invaded U.K., shooting that price up. It's down about a buck 50 from its peak last summer.
BREAM: Well, what do you make of estimates we could be $4 a gallon again by March?
BERNSTEIN: I think it's very hard to look that far around the corner. I think the president has taken decisive action and showed that he can provide some breathing room for people at the pump. The gas price, which is an important price in our economy, down $1.50 from its peak in June of last year and that means real breathing room for working Americans.
But let's broaden it out because I think inflation is very much underneath some of those numbers you just showed. The rate of inflation has fallen six months in a row. It is now considerably lower here than it is in the E.U., than it is in Germany, than it is in the U.K. And one of the reasons we have that is that favorable trend in inflation is because actions this president has taken to shore up and unsnarl our supply chains and to increase the supply of energy.
Furthermore, moving into 2023, as the Inflation Reduction Act kicks in, we're going to see lower prescription drug cost, lower cost for health coverage and lower cost for clean energy.
So, you can't get to where you need to go if you're not moving in the right direction and we are moving there. Based on last month's jobs report, we're moving there with real alacrity.
BREAM: OK. So, polls show us people don't believe it yet. They don't believe it yet.
Our latest poll shows that 74 percent of people say they do believe we're going to have a recession this year. Now, you and I have talked about this. You know that perception impacts spending, people have pulled back on retail spending, many Americans are holding off on major purchases.
Are you worried that's going to be a self-fulfilling prophecy? Because majority of people think and many economics, too, it's still going to happen.
BERNSTEIN: Let's talk about perception in a second because you're right, it's critically important.
But first, let's just talk about some facts. A 3.4 percent unemployment rate, the lowest unemployment rate since May of 1969, and I think I was 13 years old, 3.4 percent unemployment, 517,000 jobs, these are not recessionary numbers -- 12.1 million jobs since the period took office, 10.5 million new small businesses.
BREAM: But let's be clear -- millions of those were added back from the pandemic.
BERNSTEIN: Right. But I'm just saying that these that my point -- that's a fair point. My point is that 3.4 percent unemployment is not recessionary. Half a million jobs in January is not recessionary. Two-point-nine percent on GDP at the end of last year is not recessionary. So, those are the facts on the ground.
Now, let's talk about perceptions. If you actually ask people how they're doing in their financial lives, in many cases, they'll tell you, we're doing well, I'm doing fine, I'm worried about the broader economy. And that's fair, we understand that.
Prices are too high, but they are moving in the right direction, OK? Food, energy, I told you about gas. All of these prices have been falling and not just for a month or two.
At the Council of Economic Advisers, we make a big deal about looking at the trend. So, when you have inflation ticking down six months in a row, the trend is your friend and that's very important in that context. And, you know, look, you make a fair point. Catch up with them yet, okay?
So, as we move into 2023, with investments in infrastructures, with investments standing up clean energy production, semiconductor, domestic manufacturing, 800,000 jobs in manufacturing since this president took office, those are `23 numbers.
BREAM: Again, to be fair, many of those were added back because of being lost during the pandemic.
BERNSTEIN: Wait a second, let's talk about manufacturing -- 800,000 factory jobs added since this president took office. That's important to him because that's real high-value-added sector, with good jobs for non- college educated workers.
BREAM: But added --
BERNSTEIN: But I want to get to your point, that's strongest manufacturing expansion on record going back to 1953. So that's not just a bounce-back. Part of it is a bounce back --
BREAM: Yes.
BERNSTEIN: -- I should say. It's the -- it's the fastest manufacturing job growth over a business cycle going all the way back to the 1950s.
BREAM: OK. So, just -- we want to make a distinction between added and created. I think that's fair, to say --
BERNSTEIN: Added and created.
BREAM: Well, jobs that were added back partially because they were gone during the pandemic --
BERNSTEIN: Yeah.
BREAM: -- and they came back, and then creation of jobs is different.
BERNSTEIN: Yeah, I think that's fair. In other words, the unemployment rate went up, you know, very high, and bounced back down.
But there's -- in fact, forecasters were predicting that at this point, the unemployment rate would be north of 4 percent and it's 3.4 percent. So, we are doing much better than just a bounce-back.
And I think the thing about these job numbers is that they've been so persistent. I mean, as you yourself and every forecaster got wrong for the month of January, expectations were much lower.
BREAM: Way off.
BERNSTEIN: This president and his economic policy continues to exceed expectations month after month.
BREAM: OK. So, good news again for the country and we'll see where this trickles to the rest of us very soon.
I want to talk about the debt ceiling because, of course, that's a big fight. It has potential impact much broadly for our economy.
The president says he's not going to negotiate. So, last week, we played a sound bite of him in 2011 as vice president where he said, well, that's not governing, if you don't negotiate.
So, this is what we have this week from "The Wall Street Journal". A commentary piece says: What better time to call the family together, sit down around the kitchen table, get out the butcher knife and cut up the credit cards than when the bill collector has just knocked on the door demanding payment?
He knows he's going to have to negotiate. Republicans want cuts. When do the real negotiations start?
BERNSTEIN: Well, I think the negotiation over the debt ceiling, over default, is an absolute nonstarter for this president. He's been very clear about that.
There is a separate set of discussions and negotiations over fiscal policy. We have our budget. We want to see what Republicans have and that's what the president told Leader McCarthy and what was characterized as a good starting conversation.
I think people need to understand that the debt ceiling is not a negotiation, it is an obligation. In fact, it's a constitutional obligation to raise the debt ceiling to pay for spending that Congress has already signed off on. Okay, this is not about --
BREAM: Which we couldn't do in our real lives.
BERNSTEIN: Exactly.
BREAM: That example of sitting at the kitchen table and getting your credit cards cut up --
BERNSTEIN: But you don't get to choose whether you pay your mortgage or not, right? So, this --
BREAM: But you don't also go back to AmEx and say, I'm going to need more money. I'm going to need more room here to pay off this debt, but I can't handle what I already have.
BERNSTEIN: And that's the -- and that's the discussion we need to have. So, that's the discussion that the president is anxious to have with Republicans. But the problem is, they really need to bring a plan to the table.
You know, let me quote, you quote something.
BREAM: OK, let's hear it.
BERNSTEIN: Let me FOX News to you. This was an article on foxnews.com.
Lawmakers harped on the debt ceiling and say that they want to bring down spending, using it as a fiscal fig leaf. Yet if they really want to slash spending, they would have to take a butcher knife to Social Security and Medicare, OK?
BREAM: What about discretionary spending? There's room there.
BERNSTEIN: Discretionary spending --
BREAM: People have to make difficult discussions. I mean, everybody at the table has said publicly at least so far, they're not touching Social Security and Medicare.
BERNSTEIN: So, discretionary spending is 30 percent of our spending, half of that is military. When Republicans talk about wanting to balance the budget, what they're really talking -- and some of them are up front about this, others, is that you really can't get there without cutting Social Security, Medicaid, military spending, a lot of spending which people depend on with food safety and border security.
And, look, if they have a different plan that enables them to achieve fiscal responsibility, as this president has with $1.7 trillion in deficit reduction, since he got here, another 200 --
BREAM: Again, coming off the pandemic, when we had record breaking spending.
BERNSTEIN: I'm going to get to that in a second, I knew you'd say that.
BREAM: We had this conversation.
BERNSTEIN: Another $200 billion in deficit savings with the Inflation Reduction Act. If they want --
BREAM: Not by all estimates, by the way.
BERNSTEIN: If they want to join with him on that kind of fiscal responsibility, deficit reduction, without cuts to Social Security and Medicare, he is all ears.
BREAM: OK.
BERNSTEIN: But thus far -- let me tell you something -- there is no line in the budget that says waste, fraud and abuse. There's no line in the budget that this is the woke spending. So, all of this airy fairy talk about cutting spending --
BREAM: They're going to have to make hard decisions.
BERNSTEIN: -- we need to see -- we need to see the real --
BREAM: Full size (ph).
BERNSTEIN: Exactly.
Now, I want to correct one point.
BREAM: OK.
BERNSTEIN: One point seven trillion in deficit reduction, you said that that has a lot to do with spending rolling off after the COVID program. So, that is --
BREAM: In part.
BERNSTEIN: In part, correct.
Much of that, about half, is increased receipts that are function of this very strong economy, with much more inflow to the Treasury because of 3.4 percent unemployment, because of 12.1 million jobs, because of strong GDP growth. That's been (ph) -- it's not just lower spending, it's also increased revenues due to the strong Biden economy.
BREAM: Yeah. And we do have the highest revenues that we've ever had. So, we do have to talk about where spending factors into that that, too.
All right. Here's one member explaining his intention to vote no on raising the debt ceiling, because this massive accumulation of debt was predicted, because it was foreseeable, because it was unnecessary, because it was the result of willful and reckless disregard for the warnings that were given and for the fundamentals of economic management.
BERNSTEIN: So, I don't know who that lawmaker is.
BREAM: Well, let me tell you, it was President Joe Biden --
BERNSTEIN: Oh, OK.
BREAM: -- back in 2006.
BERNSTEIN: So, look --
BREAM: But does he have a point because Republicans say that's their position now.
BERNSTEIN: No, the Republicans' position is they are threatening to default in order to get what they want and the debt ceiling should never be used as that kind of threat.
We have an economy that is you and I have been discussing is growing strongly. The idea that you would put that at risk, the idea that you would put full faith and credit of the most important debt security in the world, U.S. treasuries, at risk is just antithetical to anything this president stands for.
BREAM: But is that -- but is that what President Biden was doing when he said this in 2006 and voted no?
BERNSTEIN: Now, in 2006 --
BREAM: In 2004.
BERNSTEIN: Well, this was -- in 2006, let me make this point, in 2006, do you remember a debt ceiling debate that was anywhere close and as heated as this one?
BREAM: Well, they always act like this one is the worst one.
BERNSTEIN: Well, the answer is no because Republicans very easily raised the debt ceiling in 2006 and in 2004. And, in fact, it's been raised 78 times without this kind of weaponizing this obligation in a way that I think is completely antithetical to their constitutional pledge.
Furthermore, the same politicians, and I'm talking about the Republicans, raised debt ceiling three times under Donald Trump without batting an eyelash. And this is a president who raised the deficit every year in his four-year term. He added 5 trillion to the debts. Half of that was deficit finance tax cuts, half of that was deficit finance spending.
So, President Biden, with 1.7 trillion of deficit reduction at his back, is not going to take lectures from these folks on fiscal responsibility.
BREAM: OK. Well --
BERNSTEIN: Raise the debt ceiling, get it behind us and let's have good fiscal talks.
BREAM: Well, let's see what he thinks about his lecture back in 2006. I'm just glad they're at the table because we all know there's got to be negotiations. So -
BERNSTEIN: I'm with you on that.
BREAM: And, Jared, thank you for being here. We always appreciate your time.
BERNSTEIN: Thank you, Shannon.
BREAM: See you soon.
All right, up next, we're going to bring in our Sunday group on our brand new Fox News polls about how Americans feel about each other. What are you thinking in the midst of all this growing political tension?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): This is about targeting women of color in the United States of America. Don't tell me because I didn't get a single apology when my life was threatened.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Time has expired.
OCASIO-CORTEZ: Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BREAM: That was New York Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez blasting Republicans over the vote to boot Congressman Ilhan Omar off the House Foreign Affairs Committee.
Time now for our Sunday group.
Fox News correspondent Gillian Turner, former RNC chair and former Trump White House chief of staff, Reince Priebus, Fox News senior political analyst Juan Williams, and Fox News political analyst Gianno Caldwell.
Great to have all of you here this Sunday.
: Good to be with you.
BREAM: OK, so you all saw what happened on the floor there. Reince, they've called the Republicans racist, Islamophobic, they say this is political revenge and not a good look for your party.
REINCE PRIEBUS, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF, FORMER REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE CHAIR: Well, here's the deal, the Democrats paved this road on Representative Omar years ago, when she said that -- equated Americans with the Taliban and Hamas. It was Nancy Pelosi, Jim Clyburn, Steny Hoyer that signed a letter and condemned her - her words. And then when she - then when she said it's all about the Benjamin's, and referring to Israeli groups that were supporting American elected officials, it was the Democratic Congress, led by Nancy Pelosi, that condemned her actions on the floor of the House.
So, the Democrats paved the way. So, it's pretty hypocritical for them to come back now and say, oh this is just racist.
And, by the way, she's on committees. This is not about getting kicked off of every committee. She's on fantastic committees, but she's not going to be on the Foreign Relations Committee, which is something Nancy Pelosi did in kicking people off, Tip O'Neill did, John Boehner did. There's nothing here.
BREAM: Juan, you and I, we know who Tip O'Neill is.
JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I do remember.
BREAM: The people there - are -- some of the youngsters out there might have to Google that.
But, yes, Republicans said this week, you guys changed the rules a couple of years ago and we warned you then, you start pick -- kicking our people off committees, it's going to get used against you.
WILLIAMS: Well, this is tit-for-tat. But, to me, the real issue here is effective governance, Shannon. This is evidence of now ineffective Congress has become. This is a polarized, paralyzed Congress. Seventy percent of Americans, including about half of Republicans, say this Congress is locked into petty, juvenile fights and not about real business of the American people. And I think that's what's going on here. I - I think, you know, is this about antisemitism? No. I think we have 22 Jews in the Democrats caucus, they all voted to keep her on the committee. They don't agree with her, obviously, on substance, but they didn't see it as a justification for kicking her off.
And when you go back, Reince, when you go back to what happened before, you had people who were literally threatening the lives of fellow members of Congress. And in some cases, you know, your Steve King, you had McCarthy and the Republicans take some responsibility for a racist statement but refuse, I think, because of the - the power of the Freedom Caucus, the far right at the moment, to deal with people like Greene, to deal with people like Paul Gosar, who have made threats against fellow members of the House. So that - that's when Democrats acted.
BREAM: And you're referring to the - the animated thing this Gosar put out that had an attack on AOC as part of that.
Reince, do you want to respond before I bring in the rest of the panelists?
PRIEBUS: Well, in the - in the case of Steve King, you're right, the Republicans did take responsibility. But, you know, political - political actions sometimes create political consequences. And your mouth, when you use it in a way that's hurtful to other people, you open the door in politics, in the United States of America, to - to suffer the consequences. And she did. And the Republicans used the actions of the Democrats and Nancy Pelosi to make their case.
BREAM: OK. All right -
WILLIAMS: I think this is cancel culture and it's vengeance by the Republicans.
BREAM: Well, speaking of reaction and consequence, this headline from "The New York Post," Mitch McConnell removes GOP lawmakers who challenged his leadership from Senate panel.
So, Gillian, Democrats and Republicans -- this isn't just a partisan thing. This was about Rick Scott and Mike Lee who helped mount a run at the position that Mitch McConnell now holds, Senate minority leaders.
GILLIAN TURNER, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL STAFFER AND FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: I think when - when - Shannon, when we're also talking about machinations on Capitol Hill, it's pretty safe in 100 percent of cases to assume that political maturations are afoot and are the driving motivator.
Ilhan Omar, in her own words this week, went out of her way to make a different case. If you strip some of the emotion out of it that we heard from - from her and AOC, what she said was, I feel like my perspective is not welcome on Capitol Hill because I am a woman of color, I am a Muslim and I am an African immigrant. The strongest defense of that, that Speaker McCarthy put forward, was that he has also, this week, unseated white men from committees for specific reasons.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
TURNER: While also saying when it comes to governing, like what Juan was just talking about, there is disarray on both sides of the aisle. But it was a bit of a victory politically for Kevin McCarthy that she was unseated from this committee. Remember, up until the -
BREAM: He had to hold his caucus together.
TURNER: Up until the day before it happened, that was really up for grabs. Nobody was at all sure that he would get the votes to actually do it. So -
BREAM: And there had to be some people persuaded, you know, late in the game.
TURNER: Yes. Where - where he was a month ago to now is in a much stronger position.
BREAM: OK. And this gets to one of my favorite Fox News polls, unfortunately. It says, best describes America today, dysfunctional family, 81 percent, tight-knit family, 16 percent.
Gianno, there's - there's a whole lot of dysfunction.
GIANNO CALDWELL, CALDWELL STRATEGY CONSULTING FOUNDER AND FOX NEWS POLITICAL ANALYST: No, there absolutely is a lot of dysfunction on Capitol Hill and we see that in the White House as well with the conflicting messages that are coming out of the White House.
You know, just to mention briefly on the - the issue here with Ilhan Omar, who I tried to interview on Capitol Hill and shut the door in my face, but that's another story. The - the - the consideration, and I think the woman of color consideration is not a real one. You all mentioned Steve King a number of times. Kevin McCarthy, when he was the minority leader said, we wouldn't allow that kind of conversation when he was talking to "The New York Times" reporter questioning what white supremacy is, to be an -- a part of the Republican Party, and they removed him from the committee. So, I don't buy that argument from her.
But I'll tell you, on the dysfunction argument, yes, there's a lot of folks who have discontent. I think it was like 35 percent of Democrats say it was a swing that changed that number where we're seeing about 80 percent of Americans who feel - who feel that we're a dysfunctional family.
There's Democrats in this country, independents and Republicans, that are all feeling it, in addition to the fact that we have folks who are having financial issues. We see that people are having issues paying off their credit card balances. We've seen the highest numbers in years. There's great considerations here and the question is, is government actually taking care of people and people aren't necessarily seeing that.
BREAM: Yes, there's a lot in those poll numbers. But what's not dysfunctional is this family. So, panel, if you will stick around. We've got much more to discuss. A quick break here.
Up next, former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley set to enter the race, we think, for the Republican nomination, but other presumed contenders, ah, they're still just hinting at their plans. The latest on the so-called shadow primary, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JAMES COMER (R-KY): Now we know heading into our first hearing next week on the Biden corruption that the contents of this laptop are authentic, they are indeed Hunter Biden's. That's very concerning for the president of the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BREAM: OK, House Oversight Committee Chairman James Comer, ahead of a hearing this week to investigate how social media companies handled the Hunter Biden laptop story. And, by the way, we have our panel back. We have polling that shows a majority of people do think that actually should be investigated. Juan, they say it's worthy of the House looking into it.
WILLIAMS: Sure, I think people would like hearings. The question is whether or not they trust that this will actually be a fair hearing. I mean, you know, it's a lot of people who feel right now that especially the GOP Congress has a high disapproval rating. And I think part of that is that --
BREAM: As does the Democrat Congress.
WILLIAMS: Yes, but not as high as the Republicans. But I'll just say, they're both pretty high.
BREAM: They're both in bad territory.
WILLIAMS: Yes. But the point is that people think, again, that, you know, why don't you get down to the serious business and why are you spending so much time on this.
Look, Hunter Biden - Hunter Biden's a ripe target for Republicans who want to go after a guy who is a former drug addicts, had a bumbling business past. But, basically, they're attacking him to attack President Biden. Let's not lose perspective. That's what this is about. So it's about a kind of a political thing.
And if you look through all the stuff that has been found in Hunter Biden's laptop --
BREAM: Or not laptop.
WILLIAMS: Or not. We don't know, right?
BREAM: Depending on the day. Depending.
WILLIAMS: Exactly. But so far there's nothing that you'd say, oh, yes, that's a crime. Nepotism -
BREAM: Well, hold - wait, wait, wait.
WILLIAMS: Nepotism is not a crime.
BREAM: Drug use.
WILLIAMS: Drug use.
BREAM: And potential prostitution. That kind of thing. Like, those aren't crimes?
WILLIAMS: That's not - no, that's - no, that's not - that's his problems, it's not the father's problems.
BREAM: OK, I got you. OK.
I want to make sure we read this. His lawyer, Abbe Lowell, Hunter's lawyer, says about the letter they sent out to federal and state prosecutors asking for investigations. The letters do not confirm Mac Isaac's -- that's the computer shop guy - or others' versions of a co-called laptop. They address their conduct of seeking, manipulating and disseminating what they allege to be Mr. Biden's personal data, wherever they claim to have gotten it.
So, Gillian, a lot of semantics here as we try to figure out exactly what's going on. But they're asking federal and state prosecutors to step in. Why didn't they just file a civil suit on these?
TURNER: I can't speak for them, but I would imagine it's because they don't feel that they would be able to convince a judge and jury of the case, otherwise they would want to move forward with one. I'm not a lawyer, but that stands to reason, one would think.
BREAM: Makes sense to me.
TURNER: On that point, though, I've got to give a quick shout out to Andy McCarthy. He had the most compelling political argument of the week about - you know, in response to that question. He essentially said, this is a political gambit on the part of the president's son, an understandable one, to distract from the real scandal this week, which is the ongoing revelation about the president's mishandling of classified documents, or at the very least his staff's mishandling of classified documents over the last three to four decades. That makes sense. That might be a reason why, if you're Hunter Biden, who has become essentially a political operative in the Washington universe now would want to move forward with letters like this to the Delaware attorney general and the Justice Department.
BREAM: Yes. A bit of a brushback pitch a lot of those things (ph).
PRIEBUS: It's because it's a public opinion strategy, not a legal strategy.
CALDWELL: Right.
PRIEBUS: Because if - if -- if Hunter Biden would file a lawsuit, you know very well the defense to defamation is what?
BREAM: There's discovery. Well, actual malice.
PRIEBUS: Truth.
BREAM: Yes.
PRIEBUS: Or - my -- the truth of it. Or substantial truth. So, in other words, if they were to file a lawsuit, the defense would be what I said is true. And now we're going to prove it and we're going to have depositions, we're going to have subpoenas -
BREAM: Discovery. (INAUDIBLE).
PRIEBUS: And we're going to find out what's going on. They're never going to file a lawsuit.
BREAM: I don't think anybody wants that.
OK.
TURNER: That's not good for the president either.
CALDWELL: Right. Not good.
BREAM: Well, and - and something else, and you can address this, Gianno, but something else not good for the president, this morning "The Washington Post," ABC News, they put out a poll that said 62 percent of people, and this is more than answered this for former President Trump, would be dissatisfied or angry if Biden was re-elected.
So, Gianno, that - he's got a lot of things to manage right now.
CALDWELL: Yes. I know there's a lot of African Americans that feel a similar way. When you look at polling, when you look at the polling, the young people, they don't want to see him re-elected. And I think for good reason.
You know, you were talking about Hunter Biden's bumbling business deals, but I've never found somebody who was bumbling in business deals making millions of dollars a year doing $500,000 paintings with no history of being a painter. This is - this is a legitimate issue, I think, for the Biden White House. I think it's his Achilles heel considering the fact that Hunter Biden did have ownership stake in the House that the classified documents were found in. Joe Biden's classified documents. I think there's a number of other scenario at play when you think about these letters they put out.
I personally - when I heard about it, it felt like they were trying to weaponize the federal government against those folks that were involved, not saying that it was manipulated data. What's the manipulated data? Did we hear anything about that? It's either - is Russian disinformation or is now my laptop.
So, they have a big issue on their hands, I think the - the House of Republicans - the House Republicans. That committee that's set to investigate Joe Biden have a real job on their hands and now they have (INAUDIBLE) investigation.
WILLIAMS: Well, let me just say - Gianno, let me just say, this week Joe Biden was in Philadelphia, the Democratic National Committee meeting. He was cheered wildly. The numbers indicate it's like 90 percent of Democrats and huge numbers of black people favor Joe Biden as the Democratic Party nominee.
BREAM: But this number - this - this - OK, just in --
WILLIAMS: I just know for a - that's not the case for Trump and the Republicans.
CALDWELL: So - so - so - so they - they -- they - they favor him but they've got to change their primary schedule? They do?
BREAM: Well, let's talk - wait, and let's talk about that because, listen, that - that's a test of his power over the party at this point and there are a number of states, Reince, who said, even though they took this vote yesterday, putting South Carolina into the first spot, they're not going to go along with it.
PRIEBUS: Right, because the Democratic National Committee want to promote conservative Democrat voters so that they can give an advantage to President Trump.
And I can tell you, for the Democratic National Committee, because I've done it on the RNC side --
BREAM: To President Biden.
PRIEBUS: President Biden, right.
BREAM: Yes.
PRIEBUS: Right. Right. Flash back.
BREAM: Trust me, I think the DNC does not want to give any advantage to -
PRIEBUS: Right. So - so they - what they did in the rules committee, by - by changing these rules, by getting these super majorities in these committees, it's an enormous amount of machinery that was put in place to do that.
BREAM: Yes, we -
PRIEBUS: So, they're going to nominate the one person that any Republican could beat.
BREAM: OK. We're going to leave it there. Panel, we'll see you next Sunday. Thank you all very much.
Up next, Catholic University's Ms. Willie Joyner has touched the lives of literally thousands of college kids. She'll put a smile on your face You'll meet her next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BREAM: While life for students at Catholic University has changed a lot over the last 50 years, one thing has remained the same, Ms. Willie. On paper she's a cafeteria worker handling the counters and supplies, students dashing in and out of their meals. But in reality she is a friend, a cheerleader, even a second mom for the kids that she sees every day. Knowing what a treasure they have on their hands, the school decided to honor Ms. Willie. And she sat down with me to talk about it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MS WILLIE JOYNER, CATHOLIC UNIVERSITY: I feel like it's a gift that God has given me, a hospitality gift.
All right, y'all, we have guests in the house.
BREAM (voice over): Willie Joyner, on her work as hostess, friend and confidant to tens of thousands of students over nearly five decades at Washington's Catholic University.
JOYNER: Good morning. Good morning. Good morning.
And just not a cafeteria. They need to feel comfortable and love.
I fill up ketchup, napkins, whatever is needed.
BREAM: She manages the lunch rush as hundreds grab a bite, while dealing with the stress of classes, exams, professors and roller coaster of their first years away from home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It feels like a family when we're here. Even if you're sitting alone, she'll accompany you. We love Ms. Willie. She's like our mom.
JOYNER: Hey, sweetie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How are you, Ms. Willie?
JOYNER: I'm good. I'm good. How you all feeling this morning?
BREAM (on camera): How much power do you think there is in just that quick hug, that quick hello, or somebody noticing that somebody's missing or asking them about a test? How powerful do you think those small things are?
JOYNER: When you hug someone, it's a certain hug that you give that let them know you - that's a genuine hug.
BREAM: It's a Ms. Willie hug.
JOYNER: It's a Ms. Willie hug. That's it.
Hi, babies.
Good morning, babies.
Hi, baby. How are you this morning?
BREAM (voice over): The students call her Ms. Willie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Ms. Willie.
BREAM: She calls them her babies.
JOYNER: These are my babies. Good morning, babies.
They (INAUDIBLE). I can't remember everybody's name, so, OK, I'm going to name them babies. Everybody's babies. So, from the president on down, it's baby. Baby, where you been, I haven't seen you, or I'll send a message just to let them know they're still in my heart.
So, let's go. And I've got to check tables and see what's going on with that, OK.
BREAM: We were with Ms. Willie on the first day of her 50th year on the job, and you'd have thought a celebrity was making the rounds.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, man, outstanding coworker, man. I mean you see the kids, the community love her. So, she's an icon, man, within an icon, man.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ms. Willie's the best.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She is the best.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ever.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Uh-huh.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She cares about us so much and she's always giving us hugs. And so I'm going to give you a hug.
BREAM (on camera): Today is a special anniversary. You're starting another year of creating these babies, these relationships, and pouring into people.
JOYNER: Yes. I've got grandbabies coming now. They're grandbabies. I have people that left, their children came back, their children is gone - graduated. I get pictures. I get cards. I get a lot of stuff that just let's me know that they still think of me. And that's a blessing. That is an honor and a blessing.
BREAM (voice over): Ms. Willie received a new kind of honor this fall, when her babies, who are now alumni, rallied together to make sure a new dining room on campus was named after her.
BREAM (on camera): Looking behind us.
JOYNER: Oh, yes.
BREAM: What did you think when you heard this was going to happen, and what do you think when you see it now?
JOYNER: To let me know that it was alumnus that love me and care enough and still thinking about me, to be able to do this in this building. But this right here, I never -- it is imagined (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If there's ever evidence of angels being on earths, it is that woman right there. I promise you, she is a initial treasure.
BREAM: I've heard you called an angel, the very embodiment of joy. Do you think you have a full understanding of how much you mean to people?
JOYNER: To a points, yes, yes. I know that I mean a lot to them. That's why it's hard for me to take off a day's work because I want to be there to support them.
BREAM: Uh-huh. So almost 50 years that you've been here, and I know they'd love to have you for another 50.
JOYNER: Oh, Lord, you think?
BREAM: But -- of course they would. But when the day comes that you feel like your mission here, your work is done here, what do you want people to remember about you?
JOYNER: Ms. Willie's smile. Ms. Willie's honesty. Ms. Willie's love.
How's your day going so far?
And about what happens to them.
You going to be OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
JOYNER: That's what I would like to leave, that Ms. Willie loved each and every one. Always some love.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BREAM: What a legacy. And it makes us want to honor the other Ms. Willies in our lives. Let's do that.
And before we go, a programing note. Fox News Channel will have special coverage Tuesday night of the president's State of the Union Address. Bret Baier and Martha MacCallum will anchor starting at 9:00 p.m. Eastern. And I'll see you here on this Fox station as I anchor coverage on Fox broadcast at the same time.
Before we go, a very special thank you to everyone who has purchased a copy of one of my books. It's because of you I can share this morning that nearly a million copies of "Women of the Bible Speak" and "Mothers and Daughters of the Bible Speak" have been sold. It's all because of you. I hope you've been encouraged, as I have, by the women in these books. I'm excited to share there are more stories coming. Fox News Books and I will announce the third installment of the trilogy on "FOX AND FRIENDS" Wednesday morning. I hope you'll love it. That's your hint. Please, tune in.
Thank you, Juan.
All right, that's it for today. Thank you for joining us. I'm Shannon Bream. Have a great week. We will see you next FOX NEWS SUNDAY.
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